In reply to Robin van Spaandonk's message of Fri, 29 Apr 2011 01:03:44 -0700 [snip] ...but AFAIK gas motion is not primarily ZPE driven. It's just the thermal energy of the molecules. So the implication would seem to be that as the energy was extracted, the gas would get colder, until it reached the point where the temperature is maintained by the ZPE (absolute zero?). [/reply] Robin, I replied to this previously but your question is very interesting and my mind keeps returning to the implications it might have for exotic states like the hydrino or fractional hydrogen. I have been supporting an argument that time is a true spatial dimension based on the local perspective of the spatially accelerated twin of Paradox. Said twin can also achieve acceleration equivalently from a massive gravitational well. Both scenarios increase vacuum energy density from the perspective of a remote observer and create a retarding time dilation -[getting late and I don't presently recall how I tied time dilation to energy density but I can resurrect that later if you require], Casimir effect reduces energy density and should therefore create an accelerating time dilation - the time units and therefore the axis shrinks from our perspective but as always everything appears unchanged in the inertial frame regardless if it is positive or negative acceleration. The gas atoms we infuse into these Casimir "suppression" zones translate to the new energy density courtesy of a quantum effect supplied by the surroundings. You suggested my MAHG-like ZPE extraction theory would exhaust the thermal energy available reducing the gas to liquid or solid state near absolute zero. My reply hasn't changed but the underlying concept of time and space inside a cavity exchanges properties from our perspective outside. The deuterium ice or condensed hydrogen may be the results of this constant thermal drain being spread over many years and copious amounts of space from the perspective inside the cavity - remember that the further confined or fractional the hydrogen becomes the smaller it's time quantum becomes and the larger the existing space therefore appears. I doubt the temperature would ever decline from our perspective since we perceive the returning reactants as having undergone accelerated numbers of reactions in a very brief period of time turning the metric on its head! We are really just turning the same energy upon itself at two different scales, the gas responds to zitter very locally with constant random motion while at another scale the quantum effect of Casimir geometry varies the average energy density. IMHO catalytic disassociation provides the opportunity for an asymmetrical thermal path between bond states and using a cooling loop to extract this energy while reforming h2 is a win-win situation since you can then disassociate the molecules again at a discount when they migrate to a different energy density. The PWM should be able to find populations of suitably "displaced" fractional molecules where the covalent bond is opposing the desire of the individual atoms to translate to a different energy density such that the thermal energy required to disassociate the molecule is less than the energy released when molecules reform due to the heat extraction. My suspicion is this process would even generate a circulation pattern and even a somewhat dangerous reservoir of h2 for control considerations, I remain undecided on whether a hydrino can leak more easily through a stainless Steele reactor since we have never seen the hydrino or fractional hydrogen outside the qualifying environment provided by the catalyst but I could believe a cold dihydrino or other hydrino compound might retain their temporal axis orientation even when the qualifying suppression is lessened such that they could migrate through the lattice in their fractional state. I don't think it can persist without any suppression and would disassociate outside the lattice or be reduced to some very weak fractional values that the covalent bond can maintain for a short period. Regards Fran
