Finlay, Appreciate your contributions... Thanks for the link to the humidity handbook... good clear explanations. Given my reading so far, I would agree with your statement that... "If the temperature of the vapor is above 100C and the pressure is 1 atm, then an examination of the phase diagram of water suggests that no liquid water can be entrained in the vapor. Under these conditions the steam would be dry..." You might think that all this time on the steam quality is quibbling over minor details, but one of the senior contributors to the Vort collective calculated that if only 5% (by mass) of the water going in was not vaporized (i.e., ended up as liquid water in the outflowing steam), it would pretty much wipe out all excess energy being claimed by Rossi. So this has been a major concern since the Jan demo... Then again, some have already concluded that this really is a moot point given the work by Piantelli and Focardi on Ni-H systems, the extensive history of LENR research, and recently Ahern's work with Ni-H and zero energy input (and 8W of heat out). We are dealing with macroscopic effects that don't require extremely sensitive and accurate and expensive instruments to measure. I think that there is strong evidence that allows one to make a qualitative call that there is overunity here and something novel is going on... thus, move on and figure out how to optimize it. Quibbling over whether its 1% or 2% liquid water in the steam is probably a waste of time...
-Mark _____ From: Finlay MacNab [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 11:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea... >From this document http://www.macinstruments.com/pdf/handbook.pdf, from a >website trying to sell absolute humidity gauges, it would appear that a relative humidity sensor can give accurate reading up to the boiling point of water and that the measurement of humidity decreases in dry steam as the temperature of the super heated vapor increases. The delta ohm probe in question is rated to 150C with an accuracy of +/- 3.5% above 95% RH from this spec sheet http://www.deltaohm.com/ver2010/uk/st_airQ.php?str=HD37AB1347. If the temperature of the vapor is above 100C and the pressure is 1 atm, then an an examination of the phase diagram of water suggests that no liquid water can be entrained in the vapor. Under these conditions the steam would be dry and the humidity sensor would read <= 100 +/- 3.5% according to the above information. The fact that the steam exiting the hose in the video is invisible is very strong qualitative evidence that the steam is relatively dry. Since the steam can only become wetter after it's exit from the chimney, it must be more dry when it is produced than when it exits the hose. If the temperature and pressure were measured accurately then the steam is likely to be significantly dry. In summary, it would appear that if the water is superheated then the steam is dry. _____ Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 23:52:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea... From: [email protected] To: [email protected] On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 10:34 PM, Finlay MacNab <[email protected]> wrote: If the relative humidity sensor measures capacitance then the dielectric constant of steam and the dielectric constant of steam plus water would be very different and yield very different readings. >From what I found, it is not the dielectric constant of the fluid that >determines the capacitance, but the dielectric constant of a polymer which absorbs more or less water depending on the humidity. I found variations of this paragraph at several different sites: "Most humidity sensors use capacitive measurement to determine the amount of moisture in the air. This type of measurement relies on the ability of two electrical conductors to create an electrical field between them with a non-conductive polymer film laying between them. Moisture from the air collects on the film and will cause changes in the voltage levels between the two plates. " (www.tech-faq.com/humidity-sensors.html) In this case wet steam is likely to give a higher reading than dry steam, which would give exactly the wrong information. In any case, if the device does actually give different measures for different wetness of steam, it would have to be calibrated for the purpose. The manufacturer does not do this. They calibrate it to represent the humidity in air.
