At 06:41 AM 8/8/2011, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
On Aug 8, 2011 6:45 AM, "Abd ul-Rahman Lomax"
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
> Uh, Jouni, "the wetness in steam" is "liquid water
> droplets." What did you think it was?
>
You do not have sense of what is large droplet
and and what is tiny droplet such as in fog.
Sure I do, but it's totally irrelevant. Droplet
size is not a factor in steam quality. Smaller
droplets will stay suspended longer, that's all.
But I pardon me, that i should make this
specification but i thought that it was too
obvious and this is a common sense, that people
can make a difference for liquid water and
wetness of steam, but obviously I was wrong.
Nope. I have a concept of wet steam that spans
all the way from fine mist to what is mostly
water. It can be quite unhomogeneous. What is key
is that it is all in thermal equilibrium. Wet
steam is saturated steam, at the appropriate
temperature for the pressure. It responds to
heating or cooling by evaporation or condensation.
But i think that here is your trouble that since
you do not have any understanding of the droplet
size, that differentias spilled water from wet steam.
I originally thought of liquid water below dryer
steam, but, really, this is mostly an irrelevant distinction.
But, instead of talking this absolutely
ridiculous "very wet steam", then could you show
at least one link that demonstrates steam
quality that is less than 90% in around 100°C.
But I think that you just pick ideas from,
Joshua, Steven and Peter, but do not really
understand what these basic concepts are meaning.
No, I got none of these ideas from others. I came
up with overflow water on my own, then observed
it in the writing of others. I also came up with
the realization, then, that overflow water, if
there was significant steam flow, would be
atomized by the flow, at the orifice. It would form fine droplets.
If the steam is very wet, it is carrying far less
energy, so it will condense much more rapidly in the hose.
Like I previously said, in normal tea pot,
cutting forces that causes water to be
"atomized" are far larger than in E-Cat and
still ALL TEA POTS IN THE WORLD, produces good quality steam such as 98%.
No tea pot I have ever seen does what the E-cat
does, if there is overflow water. Imagine a
whistling teapot with water feed from a pump. All
the water is at boiling, and the steam, forced
through a small opening, has substantial
velocity. What will happen if the water level
rises to the level of the opening? As it rises,
the water doesn't submerge the opening, because,
as a tiny bit of water peeks above the lip of the
opening, it's blown out by the stream of steam.
Presto. Very wet steam. How wet depends on the ratios.
The reason for this is, because you do not get
very wet steam by boiling, but in order to make
very wet steam, you need to have first of all
high velocity steam and then you need to have
aggressive cooling of the steam so that pressure
and temperature drops few megapascals rapidly.
While this may be a way to make large quantities
of wet steam. An atomizer works with a bulb
squeezed by hand and some water fed into the air
flow. A mister. The idea that this takes very
high pressures and velocities is nonsense.
If one wanted to experiment with this, just set
up an electric boiler with an outlet like the
Rossi reactor, pump water in until it's
overflowing. Then heat the water with enough heat
to raise that flow to boiling temperature and
above. You start out with liquid water, which
gradually is raised to the boiling point. If it's
total liquid water flowing out unvaporized, at
the boiling point, that could be called
"saturated steam" of 0% quality. As the heating
increases, the steam quality will increase. At
the lowest qualities, we have mostly liquid
water, but at a few percent vapor, the volume of
the vapor is so great that the volume becomes
mostly vapor, and this will carry the water with
it. I'm claiming that the water, even at 95% of
the mass, will be as small droplets. It would
look like steam, except to a practiced eye, which
would notice the lack of a "dry steam gap."
This also how fog is created, when air
temperature drops below dew point. But boiling
does not produce fog, but it is the contrary,
the cooling of the steam. And if you want high
water content for the fog in temperatures above
100°C, you need to have very high velocities.
(Pressure difference measured in megapascals)
No. Not "very high." That depends on droplet size.
Very wet steam is analogous for super cooled
liquid water. Where water stays below freezing,
because it has high velocity such as in rapids.
You may get very wet steam, e.g. 60% quality
steam, in steam turbins, where high pressure
steam is cooling rapidly, but velocity is still
high. In some experimental settings, i think
that even 10% quality steam has been produced,
when they have tested steam quality measurement instruments.
Very wet steam will not stay suspended for as
long. And boilers are not designed to be
atomizers. They simply never raise water into the outlet steam.
Ps. Since there is not much references for "vet
wet steam", most of the conclusions here are my
own. Therefore, this message may contain minor errors in some details.
Yup. I do not know what droplet size is likely.
As the heating raises the water to boiling, and
as steam starts to be generated, the water is at
first coming out as a solid stream of liquid. But
as the steam velocity increases, that will be
broken up. The faster the steam, I'd expect, the finer the droplets.
