On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Jouni Valkonen <jounivalko...@gmail.com> wrote: > I do not think that this thought experiment works with springs. That is > because spring energy is stored into compression of electron orbitals into > higher energy levels. This means that compressed spring is more massive due > to E=mc². However this is very intriguing thought experiment, because on the > other hand crystal structure of the spring is chancing when cooled. What > happens to the potential energy then? Like David said, tracking energy > conservation is very tricky.
Abd's questions have led me to believe the cold bath and a compressed spring can be used to create potential energy rather than destroy it! Abd suggested I imagine placing the spring inside a box after it is compressed. When this system is submerged in the cold bath the stiffness of the spring increases, which means the ends of the box are under greater pressure, which means the system contains more potential energy. The idea is simple and testable. This is consistent with my contention that the nature of cold is more than just the absence of heat (and the absence of motion). Cold is something unique and distinct from heat. Cold is that which gives matter stiffness. > Other perhaps even more intriguing thought experiment would be that if > compressed spring is assembled using molecular assembler such as star trek > replicator. This should not take any more energy than with uncompressed > spring, because van der waals forces are taking care of the assembling > process in both cases. That is, the extra energy needed to assemble > compressed spring is provided by van der waals force and van der waals force > is not classical force, but it is inherent quantum property of atoms. This > way we could utilize van der waals force to violate classical thermodynamics > and create useful energy out of nothing. (Geckos are masters of utilizing > van der waals forces) The cold bath does this by changing the stiffness of the spring. > However, even if this thought experiment does not work with springs, for > sure this thought experiment is working with permanent magnets. If neodymium > magnet is demagnetized when attached to refrigerator door, we are loosing > quite significant amount of classical potential energy that was required to > remove magnet from refrigerator door. That is way more than that 360 > millijoules that is the quantum energy stored into magnetic field. > > —Jouni hmmm, so the magnet motor in the video link you posted might work by slightly boosting the magnet's own strength with some cooling at just the right times in the rotation cycle. This is quite different from magnet motors which try to do it with magnetic shielding. harry > > On 7 September 2012 04:16, Harry Veeder <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> If a spring is compressed by a force at room temperature, the spring >> will return to its original length once the force is removed. >> In the language of CoE the compressed spring is said to "store" the >> energy of the work done by the force. >> >> Now compress the spring again and then place it in a bath of liquid >> nitrogen. The spring will not return to its original length once the >> force is removed. >> At this stage I would say some of the "stored energy" has vanished and >> CoE has been violated. >> >> >> Harry >> >
