Weapons grade balonium.
You repeat your lies that people have seen Obama's BC, but nobody actually
has. Give me the name of one single individual who have claimed to have
seen Obama's original BC. Not just say it's been seen by Hawaii officials,
or clerks etc. Give me a name. One credible individual who have seen it is
sufficient for me.
No one have seen it. It's covered as executive privelege information in
this executive order. That is the veil of corruption with this president.
Abercrombie could have seen it if he wasn't blocked. He is an official
government officer seeking access to official documents relating to the
public good. He by himself would have authority under Hawaii law to access
those vault records. He could have accessed it as governor. Yet he was
blocked and obviously threatened to give up the investigation. This is the
veil of corruption of this usurper-in-chief. But Lomax will continue to
prop up this muslim president and lie for the greater good of islam.
Jojo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Abd ul-Rahman Lomax" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:[OT]Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
At 09:27 PM 12/27/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote:
Lomax does not understand that this Executive Order covers anything
related to previous and current presidents.
No. Not only do I not undertand it that way, nobody who has any clue about
law and authority and juridiction doesn't understand that. It does not
cover his listing in phone books. It does not cover *anything relating to
his life before becoming President." It only covers exactly what it says
it covers: Presidential Records in the custody of the National Archivist.
Anything about this current president is covered by this order.
Like these posts? Like his driver's license? *Those are not *Presidential
Records.* That terms has a very specific meaning, defined in the Order.
IF anyone wants to release information about Obama's BC, they have to
go thru Eric Holder (the corrupt right henchman) or thru the Presidential
counsel; for approval.
No, that's not true. I was about to say it was, but I re-read it. I mean,
what an idiot! Information about Obama's BC is routinely "released." We've
done it here. No, what is true is that to gain access to private records,
which include birth certificates, hospital records, school records, and
the like, the permission of the individual involved must be obtained,
which could include someone with a power of attorney. This has *nothing to
do with the Executive Order, it is explicitly and specificaly not about
those non-Presidential Records. Presidential Records are not just anything
about the President, they are documents created within the Presidency by
the President, in his capacity as President. It's defined in the Order:
"Presidential records" refers to those documentary materials maintained by
NARA pursuant to the Presidential Records Act, including Vice Presidential
records.
The documents Jojo refers to are not "maintained by NARA." Period.
This is *really* stupid, obtuse beyond belief.
This is the veil of corruption surrounding this usurper-in-thief and
people like lomax are gving him a pass. I'm not surprised as lies are OK
for Lomax as long as it helps prop up his illegitimate usurper muslim
president.
We see right here that Jojo's arguments are totally corrupt, divorced from
basic reality, clearly, as we can see with no research other than what's
included in this mail, the Executive Order itself. Jojo has simply
repeated his claim, ignoring the Order that he himself provided as
evidence.
There is nothing that connects the order to his *birth certificate*, and
even if he were so stupid as to issue an Executive Order to attempt to
control documents held and controlled under Hawaiian law, Hawaiian
officials would ignore him.
No, you cannot just walk in and access records that are protected under
the law, but that protection has nothing to do with the Executive Order.
Sheriff Arpaio's investigators -- operating privately, but apparently
misrepresenting themselves as the "police," -- tried to do that. They were
tossed out. That has zilch to do with this Order, and Jojo keeps tossing
smoke bombs to conceal the fact that he *lied.*
The issue here is not the alleged corruption of Obama. The issue is not
whether Obama should bend even further backwards to satisfy the
"birthers," when Jojo is showing that he, anyway, won't be satisfied No
Matter What. The issue is in the subject title, which Jojo created. He
left out the [OT] tag when he created the thread, I just added it.
"Birther Myth? or Lomax lies"
Jojo said that there was an Executive Order that prevents the release of
the birth certificate. He didn't make that up, it is a common claim among
birthers. It's a "Birther Myth." I didn't know for sure that Jojo was
referring to this partcular Executive Order, but eventually I concluded
that there wasn't any other. Jojo keeps claiming that I'm lying. I return
the favor, but ... he's lying, and it can be seen here. When one lies in
the presence of conclusive evidence, the possible excuse of "I just didn't
realize" disappears. Jojo is lying.
He's lying because he is attempting to deceive and repeating deceptions
long after any possible reasonable excuse. It appears that he won't even
read the evidence he himself presented. It's an Executivee Order, and it
talks about Presidential Records. Obama is President, and a Birth
Certificate is a Record, and, Q.E.D., the BC is a Presidentital Record,
right? No. Wrong. The Order defines Presidential Records, and they have
absolutely nothing to do with anyone's Birth Certificate, not his, not
Bush's, not Clintons, etc.
no more original content below. The Executive Order is there, though.
Jojo
----- Original Message ----- From: "Abd ul-Rahman Lomax"
<[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Birther Myth? or Lomax lies
At 03:50 AM 12/27/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote:
Here is the actual Executive Order that Obama issued immediately after
he took power. The Media spins this as rescinding a Bush Executive
Order 13233. But in fact, it is a new Executive Order to specifically
require his approval before release of any information, obstensively
because of "Executive Privelege".
Obstentively? Took me a moment. Ostensibly.
"Release of any information." Sure. "Any information" of what type, where
located, and by whom?
Now, Lomax, who is lying now. Do I get my apology now? What exactly
have you debunked? .... you blatant liar.
No, no apology, unless you show that the Executive Order does what you
claimed. I not only never claimed that this *particular* Exectuive Order
did not exist, I linked to it and discussed it specifically.
[...]
Go Ahead, take you best spin shoot. Let's see what spin and lies you'll
come up next.
You've acknowledged all along that what you are doing is spinning. You
have acknowledged that you say things that aren't true to create a
dramatic image. That's "spin." But I'll give you a fair chance here.
You claimed that this document is an Executive Order which blocks access
to Obama's vault BC. Below, I quote a bit of what I wrote, to which you
are responding. I wrote, in more than one way, "If he fails to apologize,
or point to an actual order doing what he claimed, he is, effectively, a
liar."
Okay, how does this Order do that? What would cause this document to
apply to birth records held by Hawaiian state officials? It's all here
right in front of us, no more research should be necessary.
But, also for the record, I'll say it again: There is no Executive Order
that blocks public access to the "vault" birth certificate. That access
is blocked by Hawaiian law on the privacy of records (as is true, I
think, in all states). Some access to records is blocked by HIPAA, a
federal law relating to the privacy of medical records, and there are
other laws protecting the privacy of certain records, but no relevant
Executive Order that does what Jojo claims.
He lied, and he is continuing to lie. But ... his turn.
THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release January 21, 2009
EXECUTIVE ORDER 13489 - - - - - - -
PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the
laws of the United States of America, and in order to establish policies
and procedures governing the assertion of executive privilege by
incumbent and former Presidents in connection with the release of
Presidential records by the National Archives and Records Administration
(NARA) pursuant to the Presidential Records Act of 1978, it is hereby
ordered as follows: Section 1. Definitions. For purposes of this order:
(a) "Archivist" refers to the Archivist of the United States or his
designee. (b) "NARA" refers to the National Archives and Records
Administration.
(c) "Presidential Records Act" refers to the Presidential Records Act,
44 U.S.C. 2201-2207.
(d) "NARA regulations" refers to the NARA regulations implementing the
Presidential Records Act, 36 C.F.R. Part 1270.
(e) "Presidential records" refers to those documentary materials
maintained by NARA pursuant to the Presidential Records Act, including
Vice Presidential records.
(f) "Former President" refers to the former President during whose term
or terms of office particular Presidential records were created.
(g) A "substantial question of executive privilege" exists if NARA's
disclosure of Presidential records might impair national security
(including the conduct of foreign relations), law enforcement, or the
deliberative processes of the executive branch.
(h) A "final court order" is a court order from which no appeal may be
taken.
Sec. 2. Notice of Intent to Disclose Presidential Records. (a) When the
Archivist provides notice to the incumbent and former Presidents of his
intent to disclose Presidential records pursuant to section 1270.46 of
the NARA regulations, the Archivist, using any guidelines provided by
the incumbent and former Presidents, shall identify any specific
materials, the disclosure of which he believes may raise a substantial
question of executive privilege. However, nothing in this order is
intended to affect the right of the incumbent or former Presidents to
invoke executive privilege with respect to materials not identified by
the Archivist. Copies of the notice for the incumbent President shall be
delivered to the President (through the Counsel to the President) and
the Attorney General (through the Assistant Attorney General for the
Office of Legal Counsel). The copy of the notice for the former
President shall be delivered to the former President or his designated
representative. (b) Upon the passage of 30 days after receipt by the
incumbent and former Presidents of a notice of intent to disclose
Presidential records, the Archivist may disclose the records covered by
the notice, unless during that time period the Archivist has received a
claim of executive privilege by the incumbent or former President or the
Archivist has been instructed by the incumbent President or his designee
to extend the time period for a time certain and with reason for the
extension of time provided in the notice. If a shorter period of time is
required under the circumstances set forth in section 1270.44 of the
NARA regulations, the Archivist shall so indicate in the notice.
Sec. 3. Claim of Executive Privilege by Incumbent President. (a) Upon
receipt of a notice of intent to disclose Presidential records, the
Attorney General (directly or through the Assistant Attorney General for
the Office of Legal Counsel) and the Counsel to the President shall
review as they deem appropriate the records covered by the notice and
consult with each other, the Archivist, and such other executive
agencies as they deem appropriate concerning whether invocation of
executive privilege is justified.
(b) The Attorney General and the Counsel to the President, in the
exercise of their discretion and after appropriate review and
consultation under subsection (a) of this section, may jointly determine
that invocation of executive privilege is not justified. The Archivist
shall be notified promptly of any such determination.
(c) If either the Attorney General or the Counsel to the President
believes that the circumstances justify invocation of executive
privilege, the issue shall be presented to the President by the Counsel
to the President and the Attorney General.
(d) If the President decides to invoke executive privilege, the Counsel
to the President shall notify the former President, the Archivist, and
the Attorney General in writing of the claim of privilege and the
specific Presidential records to which it relates. After receiving such
notice, the Archivist shall not disclose the privileged records unless
directed to do so by an incumbent President or by a final court order.
Sec. 4. Claim of Executive Privilege by Former President. (a) Upon
receipt of a claim of executive privilege by a living former President,
the Archivist shall consult with the Attorney General (through the
Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel), the Counsel
to the President, and such other executive agencies as the Archivist
deems appropriate concerning the Archivist's determination as to whether
to honor the former President's claim of privilege or instead to
disclose the Presidential records notwithstanding the claim of
privilege. Any determination under section 3 of this order that
executive privilege shall not be invoked by the incumbent President
shall not prejudice the Archivist's determination with respect to the
former President's claim of privilege.
(b) In making the determination referred to in subsection (a) of this
section, the Archivist shall abide by any instructions given him by the
incumbent President or his designee unless otherwise directed by a final
court order. The Archivist shall notify the incumbent and former
Presidents of his determination at least 30 days prior to disclosure of
the Presidential records, unless a shorter time period is required in
the circumstances set forth in section 1270.44 of the NARA regulations.
Copies of the notice for the incumbent President shall be delivered to
the President (through the Counsel to the President) and the Attorney
General (through the Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal
Counsel). The copy of the notice for the former President shall be
delivered to the former President or his designated representative.
Sec. 5. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this order shall be construed
to impair or otherwise affect:
(i) authority granted by law to a department or agency, or the head
thereof; or (ii) functions of the Director of the Office of Management
and Budget relating to budget, administrative, or legislative proposals.
(b) This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and
subject to the availability of appropriations. (c) This order is not
intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or
procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the
United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers,
employees, or agents, or any other person.
Sec. 6. Revocation. Executive Order 13233 of November 1, 2001, is
revoked.
BARACK OBAMA
THE WHITE HOUSE, January 21, 2009.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Abd ul-Rahman Lomax"
<[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:[OT] Moon God, Dozens of wives, and marriageable age
Conclusion, there is no such Executive Order. It appears that Jojo Jaro
believes birther myths, long after they have been conclusively and with
evidence debunked. If he fails to apologize, or point to an actual
order doing what he claimed, he is, effectively, a liar.
Notice, the above is in reference to what was said below. Jojo doesn't
actually read what he responds to. It was a reference to an "Executive
Order to block access" to "vault records," i.e., the Hawaiian vault copy
of the original long form certificate.
[...]
At 02:24 PM 12/26/2012, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
At 01:07 AM 12/26/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote:
Funny thing is, the new governor of Hawaii Ambercrombie - a
democrat, strong supporter of Obama, wanted to silence the birther
movement once and for all. So, he sought to dig into Obama's vault
BC. Guess what? Even he can't penetrate the veil of corruption Obama
has put up to block access to his vault records. Why is there an
executive order to block access to Obama's vault BC.
Fascinating. Is there such an Executive Order? That would be quite
odd. Legally, the President has no authority over Hawaiian officials,
unless a federal issue could be shown. and this would not qualify.
Jojo went on to repeat the Executive Order claim that Obama is
preventing access to the vault certificate. Is that true? Is there an
"Executive Order to block access."
What can be found on this?
and then I went into detail, with links....
