Andy, the piston can be pushed by the expanding gas causing mechanical energy to be given to the crankshaft in a typical engine. And, the pull can also generate mechanical energy in a similar fashion. If you consider a crankshaft, torque is applied as it is pushed in one direction toward the top dead center of the pistons travel. Once TDC is exceeded you see that a pull force from the piston would add additional torque and energy.
It is necessary to integrate the energy output throughout a complete cycle in order to obtain the net work done by the piston motion. Over unity would be demonstrated if the energy required to activate the piston is less than that delivered to the crankshaft. I am not convinced that the Papp engine achieves this goal, but there is evidence to support that claim for the original device performance. It would be great if we could obtain a working engine to evaluate. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Axil Axil <[email protected]> To: vortex-l <[email protected]> Sent: Thu, Jan 10, 2013 8:02 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Papp's gas mixer/purifier Andy Findlay said: You've got a plausible explanation for the 'push' and the 'pull' on the piston, but why should one be greater than the other? This is a requirement if you aim to achieve over-unity, even if you ignore friction. I believe two processes are underway simultaneously after the spark discharge is initiated. First, there is a plasmoid that is generated and is propelled toward the surface of the piston. Second, at the same time, there is an electromagnetic expansion of noble gas clusters concurrent with the movement of the plasmoid. There is a threshold on the power contained in the spark that must be achieved before proper x-ray intensity is produced by the spark to achieve noble gas cluster breakup. These x-rays will then stimulate the disruption and associated expansion of the noble gas clusters. This total aggregate input power threshold is in the neighborhood in the range between about 500 to 1000 joules. The power output of the Papp reaction scales upward with increasing spark discharge power. A plasmoid can be produced by a spark with a power as low as one joule. A plasmoid will produce a power transfer efficiency of about 60% of spark power. The cluster explosion will supply additional energy that takes the process to over unity. The return of the piston to top dead center position is caused by a vacuum produced by the reformulation of the noble gas clusters. This additional energy produced by this contraction caused by the reformulation of the noble gas clusters adds to the total energy product of the Papp engine reaction. Cheers: axil On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Andy Findlay <[email protected]> wrote: On 10/01/13 21:36, Axil Axil wrote: The Papp formula may well act as follows: Add electrons and x-rays through spark discharge and the noble gas clusters expand in volume. Remove electrons and the noble gas clusters shrink in volume An alternating power supply at the frequency of the engine's cycles? Well, if the electrical circuit was resonant at that frequency, much of the power would be recycled on the next time round. This would help with efficiency, but we still need something to overcome losses due to friction You've got a plausible explanation for the 'push' and the 'pull' on the piston, but why should one be greater than the other? This is a requirement if you aim to achieve over-unity, even if you ignore friction. Or did I miss something? Andy.
