On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 11:30 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:

>In a different connection, an important point that he makes concerns the
> >ROI -- he says that a 20 keV deuteron will travel a long distance, perhaps
> >on the order of millimeters, through a metal.  Assuming he's right, that's
> >a lot more than 38 atoms, so I suspect the initial back-of-the-envelope
> >calculation for the energy loss was off in at least that respect.
> >
>
> I suspect you have that backwards. The correct assumption is that he's
> wrong.
>

Ron has been good enough to address points that have been raised in this
thread in the response copied below.  He suggests some experimental leads
that, if verified, will lend credence to his hypothesis.  I'm not really in
a position to weigh in on the merits of his hypothesis, except to say that
if there is even a five percent chance that he's right, it seems like these
leads would be worth looking into.

Eric


"the penetration depth of 20KeV deuterons in a metal is not 30 atoms, it's
measured, and it's like microns or a mm (I didn't look it up, but it's the
same as alpha particle penetration in order of magnitude), it's just not 30
atoms. The ionization is not as efficient as he imagines. I am tired of
repeating this, it is well known experimental fact, no matter how
counterintuitive it is that you can have charged particles zipping through
matter. This was the original stopping power mystery that motivated Bohr
and Bethe.

"Regarding the "entering the Pd nucleus to fuse" OF COURSE NOT, the
deuterons do not enter the Pd nucleus, they have nowhere near enough
energy. They fuse about 100 Fermis away from the Pd nucleus, a K-shell
radius away, and then they transfer the energy by virtual photon
(electrostatic interaction) to the Pd nucleus. This happens at a distance,
it doesn't require contact. Electrostatics is nonlocal. The matrix elements
are not small, because the charge on the Pd nucleus is 46, that's a lot of
charge.

"The details of banding of deuterons, if it happens at all, are difficult
to work out, I don't know if they behave more like particles or like waves,
and it doesn't really make much difference. That's simply a question of
their coherence time, the time to do something to a phonon or an electron.
In any case, the deuterons bump around the atoms, focusing near the nuclei,
and the first place where you would see fusion is near a nucleus, at a
range where you could potentially transfer energy to the nucleus. This
doesn't require massive conspiracy, or some weird violation of physical
law. All you need is a concentration of deuterons high enough to lead to
fusion, as this fusion will naturally happen unnaturally close to a Pd
nucleus, simply from the mechanism of acceleration of the deuterons,
through the K-shell holes. It's not a crazy idea, it's just something that
needs to be tested in detail, through experiment.

"The easiest experiment is simply to shine X-rays on a deuterated metal,
and see the broadening of the K-shell line into a band (if it happens).
This is an indication that the K-shell and the deuteron states are mixed
up. You can also see this from enhancements of beam fusion on deuterated
targets, and this has been observed in Russia, in the beam experiments, and
the enhancement for the process is by a small factor, but the detection is
through detecting neutrons, so it is blind to any three-body reaction that
might be taking place.

"It is also possible to test this by calculations, since the entire theory
is known. For this, however, one needs the detailed alpha particle
spectroscopy, all the unstable intermediate states, and there isn't good
data on this (I looked), but it might be possible to make something
qualitative using effective proton-neutron potentials. I don't know the
state of the art on these models, or how well they reproduce alpha particle
spectroscopy, but I am sure that it doesn't rule this out
back-of-the-envelope, and if this theory fails, it fails only because of
hard-to-calculate detailed effects."

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