Please show me the page number on which the figure of 60 KHz appears. I cannot find it at the link, and neither can I find it in the User Manual (linked there also). This is the second time I've been through these two documents. Are you sure you don't mean 60 Hz, which appears everywhere?
Your skin effect argument is curious (I do understand what you mean). As far as I know, Megawatt LF transmitters (60 - 250 KHz) seem to manage just fine with wire feeds. It is all about the geometry of the conductors. To take a reductio ad absurdum as illustration, a copper cylinder with a 1 kilometre radius will transmit very high frequencies just fine. The skin may be thin, but the conductance area (in the plane orthogonal to current flow) will be huge, and it's area that matters. Also, ask yourself about how DSL works at multi-megabits/second, too. It uses POTS telephone wires. Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: Alain Sepeda To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 3:58 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:The inanity of the hidden input power hypothesis that is what I've heard, confirmed by the spec of the powermeter http://www.industrial-needs.com/technical-data/power-anlayser-PCE-830.htm which have sampling period around that value by the way I'm EE, but I know enough to be careful about everything... What I'm sure is that if any fraud can be missed, any fraud can be found if you are free to choose the instrument, and DC is easy to find. This is why Nelso insisted to be free with Rossi in an earlier test and was suspiscious... This is why he was so positive with defkalion to be free... It is easier the detect a fraud with dummy instruments, and psychology, than with the best instruments. below 60kW the power meter does the job, above 60kHz the skin effect block most and cause overheating of cables . 2013/5/26 Andrew <[email protected]> 60 KHz limit? Where did you get that figure? Are you an EE? ----- Original Message ----- From: Alain Sepeda To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 2:02 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:The inanity of the hidden input power hypothesis with skin effect, and 60kHz limit, DC is the only option, assuming other components plugge are not destroyed immediately. 2013/5/26 Andrew <[email protected]> Nice idea in principle, but if the power actually supplied lies outside the frequency range of the measuring equipment, then this won't work. Come to think of it, are there any EE's on this list except for Duncan and myself? Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: Harry Veeder To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 1:10 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:The inanity of the hidden input power hypothesis No knowledge of the waveform would be required if a circuit breaker were used which trips if more power is getting in than Rossi claims. Harry On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 3:28 AM, Andrew <[email protected]> wrote: Probably; in any case, it would be an improvement. The majority of the paper is taken up by detailed calculations on the thermal emissions from the device - i.e. on the output side. On re-reading the paper, I'm struck by a detail from the March 116 hour test. When the input is on, the power supplied exactly matches (up to error bars) the output power, namely about 820 W. I for one find this a curious data point. It's stated that there's a 35% duty cycle on the input, and for that reason alone we get an over-unity COP result. The TRIAC-based control box appears to have two modes - auto and manual (the paper makes no attempt to help us understand this). In auto mode, there's a switchover to pulsed mode but it's unclear what triggers this. I can only assume it's due to sensing the resistor temperature indirectly via a resistance estimate. In manual mode, the authors describe setting the power level, so presumably this is also an externally available control on the box. But who knows, really? And what is really happening during the OFF state of the waveform? If power is being snuck into the device here, then the COP = 1, and there is no magic. Note that, if this be the case, then it doesn't matter if you run the device for a day or a year; you will always measure over-unity COP even though the real COP is unity. When they describe the dummy measurements, they mention placing the meter in single phase mode directly across the resistor feed wires (it's single phase for the March test). They therefore have access to that place electronically. So in principle, they could have attached a spectrum analyser and a scope. But they didn't, because it wasn't allowed in pulsed mode; they were only allowed to do it in manual mode. Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Walker To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 12:02 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:The inanity of the hidden input power hypothesis On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 11:54 PM, Andrew <[email protected]> wrote: The only way to convince the scientific community is via evidence. They will be carrying out a much longer experiment in the future. If they were to have an electrical engineer take a close look at the input power across the entire range of interest and rule out input fake, after which they were to report results similar to the ones that were reported this time around, would this be considered adequate evidence for a prima facie conclusion that Rossi's device is producing excess heat? Eric
