On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 09:03 Jakub Krajniak <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi Alexander,
>
> In the very first e-mail, you have shown us the plot of table_.xvg, I
> suppose this is the forces column. Now you can see that the force is 0
> before and after the region of interest.
> In fact, it does not matter how big K you put in topol.top for bond type
> 8, K*0 = 0. I think that's why the atoms fly away. What I usually did is to
> extrapolate the tables outside the interested regions.
> So please, check your tables, the forces column. If it contains a sequence
> of 0 for low values of r then you have a problem here.
> I use following script to do the conversion from a pure potential file
> (distance, energy, flag) to GROMACS bond tables:
>
> https://github.com/md-lab-tools/lab-tools/blob/master/scripts/votca/bond_convert.sh
> to convert .pot files to GROMACS format with the setting file:
>
> https://github.com/md-lab-tools/lab-tools/blob/master/scripts/votca/convert_bond.xml
>
> Also, I have noticed that you use interchangeably bond types 1 and 2. Keep
> in mind that only bond type 1 is harmonic and bond type 2 is quadratic
> (so-called GROMOS bonds).
>
> Best,
> Jakub
>

Thanks Jakub!

Christoph

>
> On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 4:00 PM Christoph Junghans <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 5:46 AM, Alexander Alexander
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Hi Christoph,
>> >
>> > Any idea, please?
>> I am out of ideas for now!
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thursday, May 3, 2018 at 5:50:15 PM UTC-4, Alexander Alexander wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thursday, May 3, 2018 at 4:56:25 PM UTC-4, Christoph Junghans wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 1:46 PM, Alex <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 3:03 PM, Christoph Junghans <
>> [email protected]>
>> >>> > wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 12:44 PM, Alexander Alexander
>> >>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>> >> > Hi Christoph,
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 9:29:51 PM UTC-4, Christoph Junghans
>> >>> >> > wrote:
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 4:37 PM, Alexander Alexander
>> >>> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>> >> >> > Thanks.
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> > On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 5:54:50 PM UTC-4, Christoph
>> Junghans
>> >>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >>> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 3:37 PM, Alexander Alexander
>> >>> >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>> >> >> >> > Hi Christoph,
>> >>> >> >> >> > Thanks.
>> >>> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> > On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-4, Christoph
>> >>> >> >> >> > Junghans
>> >>> >> >> >> > wrote:
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 1:38 PM, Alexander Alexander
>> >>> >> >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > Dear all,
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > I did a
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > My IBI-bonded-nonbonded (after getting the nonbonded
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > potentials
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > via
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > IBI-nonbonded only) crashes dues to the "...bonded
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > interactions
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > could
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > not be
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > calculated because some atoms
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > involved moved further apart ...". By replacing the
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > ill-bond by
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > a
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > harmonic
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > potential in topol.top file "2 3   N  0.3453  K" where
>> N =
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > 1,2
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > and
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > K
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > =
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > 5000,
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > the simulation are going well. Now what? what is the
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > relation
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > between
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > this
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > harmonic  and the table_b2.xvg which was replaced by the
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > harmonic
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > one?
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > What
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > would happen for the table_b2.xvg?
>> >>> >> >> >> >> Sorry, I don't understand your question! Can you rephrase?
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> > Let's say the calculation crashes when table_b2.xvg is used
>> >>> >> >> >> > but it
>> >>> >> >> >> > works
>> >>> >> >> >> > fine with "2 3   2  0.3453  1000" instead, then my
>> question is
>> >>> >> >> >> > that
>> >>> >> >> >> > "should
>> >>> >> >> >> > I continue the preregistration using "2 3   2  0.3453
>> 1000"
>> >>> >> >> >> > and
>> >>> >> >> >> > forget
>> >>> >> >> >> > about the table_b2.xvg? If so, what would be the final
>> right
>> >>> >> >> >> > table_b2.xvg at
>> >>> >> >> >> > the end? If not so, how I can take benefit from the
>> knowledge
>> >>> >> >> >> > of
>> >>> >> >> >> > "2
>> >>> >> >> >> > 3
>> >>> >> >> >> > 2
>> >>> >> >> >> > 0.3453  1000" to improve the table_b2.xvg so that it would
>> >>> >> >> >> > work as
>> >>> >> >> >> > well?
>> >>> >> >> >> You know generate a table with k*(r-r_0) (with r_0=0.3453
>> >>> >> >> >> andk=1000,
>> >>> >> >> >> clip out the middle part and replace it with the structured
>> part
>> >>> >> >> >> from
>> >>> >> >> >> BI.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> > OK, I see.
>> >>> >> >> > How about this instead:
>> >>> >> >> > The reason that the calculation crashes with table_b2.xvg is
>> that
>> >>> >> >> > the
>> >>> >> >> > table_b2.xvg represents a very low K (spring constant) so that
>> >>> >> >> > the
>> >>> >> >> > two
>> >>> >> >> > atoms
>> >>> >> >> > are getting apart. I was reading somewhere in the mailing list
>> >>> >> >> > that
>> >>> >> >> > the
>> >>> >> >> > last
>> >>> >> >> > number in "2 3   8  2  1  ; 1:bond-H1-L:1" is a kind of factor
>> >>> >> >> > for
>> >>> >> >> > the
>> >>> >> >> > third
>> >>> >> >> > column of the table_b2.xvg, so, don't you think it would be
>> >>> >> >> > possible
>> >>> >> >> > to
>> >>> >> >> > increase this factor to 2 or 3 (which means multiplying the
>> third
>> >>> >> >> > column)
>> >>> >> >> > until the calculation goes fine?
>> >>> >> >> Yeah, that sounds reasonable! Increasing the K helps usually
>> helps
>> >>> >> >> with the atoms getting too far apart.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> If you want to scale column 3 you will also have to modify
>> column 2
>> >>> >> >> accordingly.
>> >>> >> >> Gromacs won't allow mismatching columns.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > I tried to scale both of the column 2 and 3 of table_b2.xvg
>> using a
>> >>> >> > lot
>> >>> >> > of
>> >>> >> > scale-factor, but they did not work and the missing bond ...
>> error
>> >>> >> > is
>> >>> >> > still
>> >>> >> > here., I guess finding the right factor is not easy.
>> >>> >> > So, I tried your suggestion above, I mean k*(r-r_0) (with
>> r_0=0.3453
>> >>> >> > andk=1000. T do so, I first created a bond.pot.ib potential
>> >>> >> > including 3
>> >>> >> > columns as following:
>> >>> >> > #-----------------
>> >>> >> > bond.pot.in
>> >>> >> > #column1          #column2                          # column3
>> >>> >> > r                (1000/2)*(r-0.3453)^2         -(1000)*(r-0.3453)
>> >>> >> > #-------------------
>> >>> >> > And added the letter "i" to the end of each row.
>> >>> Ok, I think there is some confusion about table format.
>> >>>
>> >>> The Gromacs (xvg) table format is:
>> >>> first column : Distance with unit nm
>> >>> Second column : Energy with unit KJ/mol
>> >>> Thirst column: Force with unit KJ/mol/nm
>> >>>
>> >>> However the VOTCA table format is just
>> >>> first column : Distance in simulation backend units
>> >>> Second column : Energy in  simulation backend units
>> >>> Third column: flag
>> >>> (see section 3.6 of the VOTCA manual)
>> >>
>> >> Probably you mena the *.pot.ib or *.pot.in we get from csg_boltzmann.
>> >> Otherwise after converting them to the gromacs format by by
>> csg_call... ..
>> >> convert_potential gromacs... they have the gromacs units and formats.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> >> > Then I tried to converted the above bond.pot.in to table_b2.xvg
>> >>> >> > using
>> >>> >> > "csg_call --ia-type bond --ia-name bond-H1-L --options
>> bond-H1-L.xml
>> >>> >> > convert_potential gromacs ...". But then all of the second and
>> third
>> >>> >> > columns
>> >>> >> > of the new table_b2.xvg was just nan -nan.
>> >>> >> > Would you please let me know if the procedure is right and where
>> I
>> >>> >> > am
>> >>> >> > doing
>> >>> >> > wrong?
>> >>> >> Not sure, can you post your input files? (pot.in and xml)
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Thanks.
>> >>> > Please find attached the files pot.in =  Harmonic-bond-H1-L.pot.in
>> >>> > The two other files are the potential associated with this bond
>> >>> > obtained by
>> >>> > normal BI crashing the calculation.
>> >>> >  I simply calculate the harmonic files using these two awk command:
>> >>> >
>> >>> > awk -v CONVFMT=%.7g '{$3 = (($1 - 0.34530000)**2)*(1000/2)} 1'
>> >>> > awk -v CONVFMT=%.7g '{$4 = ($1 - 0.34530000)*(-1000)} 1'
>> >>> Looking at Harmonic-bond-H1-L.pot.ib, something is screwed up.
>> >>> You have duplicated r values.
>> >>> $ head Harmonic-bond-H1-L.pot.ib
>> >>> 0.3432 0.002205 2.1
>> >>> 0.3432 0.002205 2.1
>> >>>
>> >>> Something like:
>> >>> $ awk 'BEGIN{for(r=0.3425;r<0.3481;r+=0.0005){print
>> >>> r,((r-0.34530000)**2)*(1000/2)},"i";}' > Harmonic-bond-H1-L.pot.ib
>> >>> $ csg_call --ia-type bond --ia-name bond-H1-L --options bond-H1-L.xml
>> >>> convert_potential gromacs Harmonic-bond-H1-L.pot.ib table_b2.xvg
>> >>> should work!
>> >>
>> >> Wow, it works now, thank you.
>> >> Just one issue; in "2 3   2  0.3453  K" of harmonic potential ,
>> different
>> >> K from 500 to 50000 could work in this system, and then each K would
>> give
>> >> different pot.ib and table_b2.xvg of course with
>> >> (r-0.34530000)**2)*(1000/2), so, which one (K) is good to choose?
>> >
>> > Additionally, why using the "2 3   2  0.3453  K" in the harmonic format
>> > works fine in a calculation, but it does not work soemtimes when I
>> convert
>> > the "0.3453  K" to the table format following the remedy above?
>> Have another look here:
>>
>> http://www.gromacs.org/Documentation/How-tos/Tabulated_Potentials#Constructing_the_Table(s)
>> If you are doing the table right, otherwise this sounds like a bug in
>> gromacs to me!
>>
>> Christoph
>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> One more question:
>> >> After a IBI-nonbonded for a system, I am doing now IBI-bonded-nonbonded
>> >> for that system which has two bond types and one angle. They started
>> with a
>> >> promising fit with their dist.tgt's but afterward they do not have any
>> >> sensible improvement after 115 step now, even the angle.dist.new is
>> loosing
>> >> gradually its agreement with angle.dist.tgt. I was wondering what
>> might be
>> >> the reason? Below is part of my settings.xml file: The
>> <scale>1.5</scale> in
>> >> the first bond I choose just because I though it might help
>> improvement, but
>> >> no considerable improvement.
>> >>
>> >>      <name>bond-D-E</name>
>> >>      <min>0.200</min>
>> >>      <max>0.500</max>
>> >>      <step>0.0005</step>
>> >>            <inverse>
>> >>                 <target>bond-D-E.dist.tgt</target>
>> >>                 <do_potential>1 0 0</do_potential>
>> >>                 <post_update>smooth</post_update>
>> >>                 <post_update_options>
>> >>                 <scale>1.5</scale>
>> >>                 </post_update_options>
>> >>                 <post_add>convergence</post_add>
>> >>                 <gromacs>
>> >>                 <table>table_b1.xvg</table>
>> >>                 </gromacs>
>> >>            </inverse>
>> >>   </bonded>
>> >> <!--  %%% -->
>> >>   <bonded>
>> >>      <name>angle-D-E-F</name>
>> >>      <min>2.0</min>
>> >>      <max>3.0</max>
>> >>      <step>0.001</step>
>> >>           <inverse>
>> >>                 <target>angle-D-E-F.dist.tgt</target>
>> >>                 <do_potential>0 0 1</do_potential>
>> >>                 <post_update>smooth</post_update>
>> >>                 <post_update_options>
>> >>                 <scale>0.1</scale>
>> >>                 </post_update_options>
>> >>                 <post_add>convergence</post_add>
>> >>                 <gromacs>
>> >>                 <table>table_a1.xvg</table>
>> >>                 </gromacs>
>> >>          </inverse>
>> >>   </bonded>
>> >
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Alex
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Thank you.
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Alex
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Christoph
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Regards,
>> >>> > Alex
>> >>> >
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Christoph
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > Thank you.
>> >>> >> > Alex
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > Figures in attachment are the plot of
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > table_b2.xvg.
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > I got the bonded tables including the table_b2.xvg by
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > "csg_boltzmann"
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > -->
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > "csg_call --sloppy-tables" ---> "csg_call --ia-type bond
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > --ia-name
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > bond
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > ...
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > gromacs table_b2.xvg". And I am using the
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > bond(angle)-*.pot.in
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > as
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > initial
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > guesses for my IBI-all.
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > The table_b1.xvg in gromacs manual has been defined such
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > that
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > the
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > the
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > r(nm),
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > f(r), f'(r) are the first, second and third column of
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > table_b2.xvg
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > where
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > f(r) is a cubic spline function in V_b(r_ij) =
>> k*f(r_ij),
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > If
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > the
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > same
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > definition is applied for the table_b2.xvg obtained by
>> the
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > above
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > method?
>> >>> >> >> >> >> To be clear, the gromacs table format is x, f(x), -f'(x)
>> (see
>> >>> >> >> >> >> gromacs
>> >>> >> >> >> >> manual 4.2.14)
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >> I am not sure what your question is! Gromacs uses cubic
>> >>> >> >> >> >> spline
>> >>> >> >> >> >> internal to interpolate  the table.
>> >>> >> >> >> >> However, if you set cg.inverse.gromacs.table_bins in your
>> xml
>> >>> >> >> >> >> file
>> >>> >> >> >> >> small enough (you had something like 0.002), then there
>> isn't
>> >>> >> >> >> >> much
>> >>> >> >> >> >> to
>> >>> >> >> >> >> interpolate.
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > What is the unit of f(r)?
>> >>> >> >> >> >> KJ/mol (gromacs energy units)
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > What is the unit of each column in table_b2.xvg in
>> VOTCA?
>> >>> >> >> >> >> KJ/mol/nm (gromacs force units)
>> >>> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> > Just to sum up the table format, can you please confirm me
>> >>> >> >> >> > that
>> >>> >> >> >> > the
>> >>> >> >> >> > table_b.xvg in VOTCA has the following format:
>> >>> >> >> >> > first column : Distance with unit nm
>> >>> >> >> >> > Second column : Energy with unit KJ/mol
>> >>> >> >> >> > Thirst column: Force with unit KJ/mol/nm
>> >>> >> >> >> For bonds (not angles) in gromacs that is the format!
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> > For angle the first column is degree probably.
>> >>> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> Also for a different simulation backend, e.g. lammps this
>> will
>> >>> >> >> >> be
>> >>> >> >> >> different of course, too!
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> > I have one more question which your comment on would be highly
>> >>> >> >> > appreciated:
>> >>> >> >> > In another IBI-bonded-nonbonded parameterization the "mpirun
>> -np
>> >>> >> >> > 64
>> >>> >> >> > gmx_mpi
>> >>> >> >> > mdrun" work fine till step_021 of parameterization where it
>> >>> >> >> > crashes
>> >>> >> >> > because
>> >>> >> >> > it can not find any domain decomposition for 64 ranks that is
>> >>> >> >> > compatible
>> >>> >> >> > with the system size. Even it works in the minimization
>> >>> >> >> > simulation in
>> >>> >> >> > step_021.
>> >>> >> >> > I have already read most of the discussions about the error of
>> >>> >> >> > domain
>> >>> >> >> > decomposition, and I have tried different options like using
>> >>> >> >> > different
>> >>> >> >> > ranks
>> >>> >> >> > (64, 32, 16, 8, 40, 36) and also -rdd ... or -dds. However, no
>> >>> >> >> > success
>> >>> >> >> > yet.
>> >>> >> >> > I am totally confused with these parameters and I can not
>> solve
>> >>> >> >> > the
>> >>> >> >> > issue.
>> >>> >> >> > So, below I have shared the md.log files for the step_20
>> (which
>> >>> >> >> > works
>> >>> >> >> > fine)
>> >>> >> >> > and step_21 (minimization which works fine) and step_21 (which
>> >>> >> >> > crashes),
>> >>> >> >> > and
>> >>> >> >> > I would be so appreciated if one could help me overcome the
>> >>> >> >> > issue.
>> >>> >> >> > About the machine: Running on 4 nodes with total 64 cores, 64
>> >>> >> >> > logical
>> >>> >> >> > cores,
>> >>> >> >> > Cores per node: 16.
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> > md.log-20
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ZwYggDI1Hy_eYY8_nT8I50t91Wla0Obr
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> > md.log-21-mini
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1oYE4A6fC1L8u_vx4sR8RIq3EWiG9-7YB
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> > md.log-21
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ff_QJrdGvLFgwGU9xMY-IcqfxzF2jkAO
>> >>> >> >> Sorry, that really is a question for the gromacs user mailing
>> list.
>> >>> >> >> ([email protected])
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> Christoph
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> > Thank you very much.
>> >>> >> >> > Regards,
>> >>> >> >> > Alex
>> >>> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> Christoph
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > And would you please explain table_b2-1-3.png figure?
>> >>> >> >> >> >> Not sure what there is to explain..the code on how the
>> third
>> >>> >> >> >> >> column
>> >>> >> >> >> >> is
>> >>> >> >> >> >> calculated is here:
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> https://github.com/votca/csg/blob/master/share/scripts/inverse/table_to_xvg.pl#L95
>> >>> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> > Best regards,
>> >>> >> >> >> > Alex
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >> Christoph
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > Thank you very much.
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > Regards,
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > Alex
>> >>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > --
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to
>> the
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > Google
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > Groups
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > "votca" group.
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > from
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > it,
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > send
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > an
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > email to [email protected].
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > To post to this group, send email to
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > [email protected].
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > Visit this group at
>> https://groups.google.com/group/votca.
>> >>> >> >> >> >> > For more options, visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> >> --
>> >>> >> >> >> >> Christoph Junghans
>> >>> >> >> >> >> Web: http://www.compphys.de
>> >>> >> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> >> > --
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>> >>> >> >> >> > email to [email protected].
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>> >>> >> >> >> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/votca.
>> >>> >> >> >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout
>> .
>> >>> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> >> --
>> >>> >> >> >> Christoph Junghans
>> >>> >> >> >> Web: http://www.compphys.de
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> > --
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>> >>> >> >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> --
>> >>> >> >> Christoph Junghans
>> >>> >> >> Web: http://www.compphys.de
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > --
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>> >>> >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> --
>> >>> >> Christoph Junghans
>> >>> >> Web: http://www.compphys.de
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> --
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>> >>> >
>> >>> > --
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>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Christoph Junghans
>> >>> Web: http://www.compphys.de
>> >
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Christoph Junghans
>> Web: http://www.compphys.de
>>
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-- 
Christoph Junghans
Web: http://www.compphys.de

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