On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 12:44 PM Cecília Álvares <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Hey Marvin,
>
> It seems to have worked! I guess it was not very intelligent of me to have
> taken for granted that my previous setup for the scaling factor was
> correct: if I had compared the results with vs without my factor instead of
> analyzing it isolate to see if the problem had been solved, I would have
> noted long ago that there the factor setup was not on and saved some time
> and energy :"D
>
> It seems though that I will indeed need to use your codes to do the
> interpolation/extrapolation mentioned within the section 2.9 of the paper
> you sent since my potential curves are still awkward in the angle range
> corresponding to the onset regions of the rdf. So that will definitely save
> the day also - thanks for sending me that paper.
>
> Other than that, hopefully IBI will keep working later on, when I move to
> the non-bonded in other mappings cherishing more than one bead type, which
> will be more challanging since the effect one pair potential has in the
> spatial arrangement of other pairs is meant to be more intense in xtalline
> solids compared to liquids.
>
> In any case, thanks a lot once again! It is no scientific prize, but your
> name will totally be in the acknowledgements of my thesis!! :D
>

Celillia, sorry for being late to the party! I am glad you found the
problem! And thanks Marvin for helping out here.

There is one example in the tutorials about scaling,see:
https://github.com/votca/votca/blob/master/csg-tutorials/urea-water/ibi/settings.xml#L52C1-L58

And the VOTCA pdf manual is obsolete, please use our online documentation
at https://www.votca.org instead.

Christoph


> [image: Marvin.png]
>
> Em domingo, 7 de maio de 2023 às 19:32:10 UTC+2, Marvin Bernhardt escreveu:
>
>> Hi Cecília,
>>
>> unfortunately I did not have time to run it myself. But I had a quick
>> look at the files and I think I see what is missing to activate post-update
>> scaling. It should have "scale" in post_update:
>> ```
>> <post_update>scale</post_update>
>> <post_update_options>
>>   <scale>0.25</scale>
>> </post_update_options>
>> ```
>> Maybe you can try that out, I keep my fingers crossed :)
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, 6 May 2023 at 12:33:43 UTC+2 Cecília Álvares wrote:
>>
>>> (more pictures lying of distributions in farther steps.
>>> *PS:* In the figure that I showed you before the last message you sent,
>>> step 30 is a weird distribution whilst in the image below it isnt. This is
>>> because I ran the simulation to generate the results shown above with a
>>> smaller amount of atoms in order to get it done faster. That's why they
>>> dont match. In any case, the problem seems to be there regardless of how
>>> big the box is and I do gather enough microstates to do the statistics.
>>>
>>> These curves here and the one from my message above with steps 5,6 and 7
>>> are from a same simulation containing the same amount of superatoms as in
>>> the file I sent you (1500), and with optimization occuring only in the
>>> angle, so that maybe it is more comparable with your case.
>>> [image: marvin_picture2.png]
>>>
>>> Em sábado, 6 de maio de 2023 às 12:09:52 UTC+2, Cecília Álvares escreveu:
>>>
>>>> Also, here comes potential curves and probability distribution curves
>>>> that are of consecutive steps as you asked. You can see that indeed it is
>>>> going back and forth (at least in these three steps that I prepared). And
>>>> despite understanding how the "pre-factor" idea can help with the cause, I
>>>> dont think that it will really save the day without implementing your codes
>>>> to take care of the onset interpolation. This is because in my case I have
>>>> a lot of onset regions with very tiny values which will result in huge
>>>> values when boltzmann inverted (specially in the g(r), if I go for
>>>> optimizing non-bonded later on, since my material is xrystalline).
>>>>
>>>> You can see that I have these weird peaks that are artificially created
>>>> without the interpolation. I think this is what causing everything to go to
>>>> hell. But I havent managed to use the codes you mentioned in that VOTCA
>>>> branch to give you a feedback.
>>>>
>>>> Anyways, thanks a lot for helping me with all of this ! :)
>>>> [image: pictures_marvin.png]
>>>>
>>>> Em sábado, 6 de maio de 2023 às 11:54:57 UTC+2, Cecília Álvares
>>>> escreveu:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey Marvin,
>>>>>
>>>>> In fact, maybe I am not setting the scaling factor correctly. I had
>>>>> seen page 56 of VOTCA's manual and understood the factor to be an option
>>>>> <scale> [value you want] </scale> " that should be input inside the
>>>>> <post_update_options> (which is inside <inverse>). I mean, it does say in
>>>>> page 56 of the manual,  "*post_update_options.scale *: scale factor
>>>>> for the update (default 1.0)". But now that I took a look comparing the
>>>>> results with and without the factor, instead of simply looking at them two
>>>>> separately, I realize that the curves are exactly the same. So the factor
>>>>> that I am setting is not doing anything....
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure, I have no problem sharing the files here. If you want to run, I
>>>>> suggest that you try optimizing the bonded potentials (and also only the
>>>>> angle, leaving the bond potential constant throughout the IBI) because it
>>>>> is simpler than doing it for the g(r). I will put it all here in a zip
>>>>> file. Thanks a lot for the offer.
>>>>> PS: In fact, after I re-read your previous email, I realized I had
>>>>> misread the first sentence of your phrase: in my case, I was much more
>>>>> surprised that the optimization of the bonded didnt work. The g(r)s have
>>>>> very complicated shapes, so in fact for me it is more shocking not to be
>>>>> able to reproduce the angle distribution than the g(r) - at least not
>>>>> without the interpolation in the onset regions you mentioned in the paper.
>>>>>
>>>>> Based on your previous suggestion: yesterday I tried narrowing the min
>>>>> and the max to do no accomodate the onset regions and splitting the angles
>>>>> into two types, but upon looking at the results quickly, the iterations 
>>>>> are
>>>>> not getting better either, but then I need to analyse this more carefully
>>>>> still.
>>>>> Em sábado, 6 de maio de 2023 às 10:23:49 UTC+2, Marvin Bernhardt
>>>>> escreveu:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Regarding your last picture: I observe that all the even iterations
>>>>>> (10, 30, 100) have spikes at different positions compared to the odd
>>>>>> iterations (15, 19). I really would like to see a plot with consecutive
>>>>>> iterations, i.e. 30-36 to see if it goes forth and back. However, this
>>>>>> should be solved by a scaling factor. Did you try a small scaling factor
>>>>>> like 0.1 or smaller?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can offer you to run IBI on my computer and have a closer look. If
>>>>>> you don't want to share the files here, you can also send me a direct
>>>>>> E-Mail.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Friday, 5 May 2023 at 11:29:33 UTC+2 Cecília Álvares wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PS: sorry, the y axis says g(r) but it is the angle probability
>>>>>>> distribution
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Em sexta-feira, 5 de maio de 2023 às 11:24:45 UTC+2, Cecília Álvares
>>>>>>> escreveu:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (1) indeed I spotted that in some cases they oscilate back and
>>>>>>>> forth around the target distribution (I am attaching a pic as an 
>>>>>>>> example).
>>>>>>>> However, this is not something that putting a factor < 1 was able to 
>>>>>>>> solve.
>>>>>>>> (2) no, I am working in the NVT ensemble.
>>>>>>>> (3) my thermostat is working: the temperature is quite well
>>>>>>>> equilibrated (no weird spikes). The timestep us also small (I am using 
>>>>>>>> 5fs
>>>>>>>> atm).
>>>>>>>> (4) me too :"D
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> R: Regarding the implementation in Votca: I saw that link in the
>>>>>>>> paper. So indeed the interpolation scheme at the onset region that is
>>>>>>>> mentioned in the paper is not implemented in the basic VOTCA 
>>>>>>>> installation
>>>>>>>> and we need to use those codes in the branch you mentioned, right?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> R: Regarding the bonded potentials: Good idea. That is actually
>>>>>>>> something I did not try. I test it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Photo below: evolution of the angle distribution in a scenario in
>>>>>>>> which I am optimizing only one potential (i.e., the angle potential) +
>>>>>>>> using a factor of 0.25
>>>>>>>> [image: marvin2.png]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Em sexta-feira, 5 de maio de 2023 às 09:08:04 UTC+2, Marvin
>>>>>>>> Bernhardt escreveu:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regarding optimizing non-bonded potentials in crystals, just a
>>>>>>>>> list of things I would check:
>>>>>>>>> Are the distributions at the iterations oscillating around the
>>>>>>>>> target distribution? Or is it rather a slow approach that never gets 
>>>>>>>>> there?
>>>>>>>>> Or is it chaotic?
>>>>>>>>> Are you working at constant pressure? If so, I would try at
>>>>>>>>> constant volume.
>>>>>>>>> Is your thermostat working and your time step small enough such
>>>>>>>>> that the temperature is always as expected in each iteration?
>>>>>>>>> Well possible, that it just does not work for your system,
>>>>>>>>> however, I am really surprised, that separating out a single 
>>>>>>>>> potential in
>>>>>>>>> the whole system did not work.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regarding the implementation in Votca:
>>>>>>>>> It is still in the branch csg/mulit-iie2 at GitHub, you can build
>>>>>>>>> it from there. It has all the methods from the paper.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regarding the bonded potentials:
>>>>>>>>> For this situation it helps to restrict the range such that the
>>>>>>>>> problematic regions are not included. Votca should then extrapolate 
>>>>>>>>> bonded
>>>>>>>>> potentials linearly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, 4 May 2023 at 14:46:49 UTC+2 Cecília Álvares wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Let me just ask one more question if I may:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In the section 2.9 of your paper, you talk about how the
>>>>>>>>>> algorithm is set to create an "alternative RDF" which cherishes an
>>>>>>>>>> interpolation in the onset region, where the values of the original 
>>>>>>>>>> RDF
>>>>>>>>>> tend to be very small and the region tend to be poorly sampled 
>>>>>>>>>> (which is a
>>>>>>>>>> quite good idea btw :) ). In the paper it specifically says range of 
>>>>>>>>>> values
>>>>>>>>>> that you guys have had good experience with applying this 
>>>>>>>>>> interpolation
>>>>>>>>>> procedure. In the abstract of the paper it says that the methods are
>>>>>>>>>> implemented in VOTCA. Do you mean only the specific numerical 
>>>>>>>>>> methods you
>>>>>>>>>> are using to do the iterative process or do you include also other 
>>>>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>>>>> things such as the interpolation protocol you described in section 
>>>>>>>>>> 2.9?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am asking because in my case, sometimes, the distribution
>>>>>>>>>> coming from the CG simulation ends up having small values that 
>>>>>>>>>> sometimes
>>>>>>>>>> oscillates a bit back and forward in the onset region but the g(r) 
>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>> values a bit larger than the value you mentioned in the paper for 
>>>>>>>>>> which the
>>>>>>>>>> itnerpolation is done (1E-4). This causes weird potentials to happen 
>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>> could be the reason why everything is going to hell. I am attaching a
>>>>>>>>>> figure to illustrate the point. Is there a way in which I can change 
>>>>>>>>>> myself
>>>>>>>>>> the value of the threshold for which I want to apply the 
>>>>>>>>>> interpolation?
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe in my case I would need to use values higher than 1E-4. It 
>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>> totally save the day and also make sense: since I am simulating a 
>>>>>>>>>> xtalline
>>>>>>>>>> material whose superatoms are allowed less movement compared to a 
>>>>>>>>>> liquid,
>>>>>>>>>> the setup of my interpolation needs to be more strict for the IBI to 
>>>>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> [image: marvin.png]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Em quinta-feira, 4 de maio de 2023 às 12:25:09 UTC+2, Cecília
>>>>>>>>>> Álvares escreveu:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think at this point I may be ready to just say that indeed IBI
>>>>>>>>>>> cannot be used to converge to a potential that is able to reproduce 
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> structure of xtalline materials (or at least the material I am 
>>>>>>>>>>> studying).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've tried
>>>>>>>>>>> (1) diminishing the factor used to update the potential (as you
>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned) and it did not work.
>>>>>>>>>>> (2) updating literally only one potential at a time in the IBI
>>>>>>>>>>> and keeping the others literally constant either in the BI 
>>>>>>>>>>> potential or in
>>>>>>>>>>> analytical forms that are able to reproduce perfectly the 
>>>>>>>>>>> probability
>>>>>>>>>>> distributions. This would discard the possibility of dependence on 
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> degrees of freedom in that sense that the update of one potential is
>>>>>>>>>>> affecting the distributions related to other potentials.
>>>>>>>>>>> (3) Although the result is not meant to be bin-size-dependent, I
>>>>>>>>>>> tried playing with the bin size of both, the references I am 
>>>>>>>>>>> feeding to
>>>>>>>>>>> VOTCA, and of the distributions it is meant to built as the 
>>>>>>>>>>> iterative
>>>>>>>>>>> process runs for the different potentials. I thought maybe I was not
>>>>>>>>>>> setting up "proper" bin sizes for the algorithm.
>>>>>>>>>>> (4) I tried dividing the angles lying within each of the two
>>>>>>>>>>> peaks in the initial figure I showed into two different angle types 
>>>>>>>>>>> and it
>>>>>>>>>>> also did not work.
>>>>>>>>>>> (5) I read your paper and tried to be more careful with issues
>>>>>>>>>>> that you raised in section 2.9 related to the smoothness of the
>>>>>>>>>>> distributions in the onset region (although VOTCA is supposed to 
>>>>>>>>>>> take care
>>>>>>>>>>> of this internally apparently via the extrapolation methodology). 
>>>>>>>>>>> Although
>>>>>>>>>>> section 2.10 bring up issues related to IMC, I also tried some more 
>>>>>>>>>>> ideas
>>>>>>>>>>> that came to mind from reading that section and it didnt work.
>>>>>>>>>>> (6) I've tried keeping analytical forms for the bonded
>>>>>>>>>>> potentials (I happen to have analytical forms that perfectly 
>>>>>>>>>>> reproduce the
>>>>>>>>>>> distributions) and optimize the non-bonded and it also doesnt work.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Naturaly, in all cases, together with weird distributions, my
>>>>>>>>>>> potentials are also going to hell as the iterative procedure goes 
>>>>>>>>>>> on (which
>>>>>>>>>>> explains why the corresponding distributions are weird).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For sure the problem doesnt have to do with the "sharpness" of
>>>>>>>>>>> the probability distribution curves (due to the xtalline material 
>>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>>> highly ordered) cause I tried to feed "artificial" target 
>>>>>>>>>>> distributions
>>>>>>>>>>> that are wide and thus less step and I dont converge to anything 
>>>>>>>>>>> reasonable
>>>>>>>>>>> either.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe the shape of the distributions for xtalline materials is
>>>>>>>>>>> not friendly to be used within IBI to converge to a potential, 
>>>>>>>>>>> idk...
>>>>>>>>>>> Well..
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Em quarta-feira, 26 de abril de 2023 às 15:19:19 UTC+2, Cecília
>>>>>>>>>>> Álvares escreveu:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> (In any case let me try your factor idea, some other stuff that
>>>>>>>>>>>> came to mind + finish reading your paper so that maybe I have more 
>>>>>>>>>>>> useful
>>>>>>>>>>>> info on the problem)
>>>>>>>>>>>> Em quarta-feira, 26 de abril de 2023 às 14:05:06 UTC+2, Cecília
>>>>>>>>>>>> Álvares escreveu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Indeed, this could be the reason why I have this weird
>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-smoothness in the plots I sent in my 2nd message (the ones 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> concerning a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> less coarsened mapping), because indeed in this case I was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> optimizing all
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the three bonded potentials at once. I will try not doing them at 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time and see if the smoothness-issue improves.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But then this would not explain the issues I had in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> original post I made, which concerned another mapping (a highly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> coarsened
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one). If the problem was a matter of optimizing more than one 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bonded
>>>>>>>>>>>>> potential at once, I should have had good results when I tried to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do IBI
>>>>>>>>>>>>> only for one angle type and kept the potential for bonds constant 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (at a BI
>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess) throughout the procedure. But unfortunately my angle 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution
>>>>>>>>>>>>> still converges to something ultra weird with 3 peaks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> PS: maybe my last message was too big and maybe it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> confusing, but the figures I sent in my 1st message and in my 2nd 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are for different mappings. In the first one (let's call it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mapping A), I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have only 1 bond type and 1 angle type. For this one I did try 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> optimizing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> separately to see if it would fix the problem and yet I reached 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> weird
>>>>>>>>>>>>> results. The second message had figures of a less coarsened 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mapping (let's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> call it mapping B) in which I somewhat successfully converge to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> potentials
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that yield more or less rightful distributions (apart from the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> smoothness
>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue). I only brought up the results of the second mapping to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> show that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same strategy "worked" for deriving bonded potentials via IBI 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> another mapping. Sorry if I made it more confusing!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Em quarta-feira, 26 de abril de 2023 às 08:29:58 UTC+2, Marvin
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bernhardt escreveu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Cecília,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ok, then it is probably not the interaction with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-bonded terms, that causes issues. But I believe something 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going on, that indeed has something to do with your system being 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solid/crystal:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IBI is a very good potential update scheme, when the degrees
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of freedom are well separated. For molecules in liquids, angles 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bonds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are usually well separated, i.e. changing the potential of one, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> affect the dist of the other much. But multiple occurrences of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equivalent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DoFs also need to be well separated for IBI to work well. In 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your case,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consider a single angle potential between three beads in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crystal is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changed, but all the others are kept constant. It will change the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution of that angle, but also have  effect on different 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> angles. In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that case IBI is not providing a good potential update at each 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iteration.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What is happening in detail, I believe, is that the angle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potential of all angles is updated by IBI, but this leads to an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “overshoot”. The next iteration, IBI tries to compensate, but 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overshoots
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> again in the other direction. You can easily test if this is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happening, plotting even and uneven iterations separately, i.e. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compare a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plot at iterations 10, 12, 14 with 11, 13, 15.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me before with ring molecules, where the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> situation is similar. A possible solution is to scale the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update, by some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> factor between 0 and 1 (I'd try 0.25).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also test this for the bond potential, I guess this is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happening there too, otherwise it should converge within ~20 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iterations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marvin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 10:25:59 UTC+2 Cecília Álvares
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Marvin,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks a lot for the reply!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will have a look on the paper right now and do some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking. In fact, I wanted to test the possibility of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> optimizing the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bonded potentials first and, after its optimization is done, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> optimize the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-bonded. So basically there is no optimization of non-bonded 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsover
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being done in my simulation. To build the target distributions, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I sampled
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an atomistic system in which the non-bonded forces were 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> artificially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> removed. After having a trajectory file of this AA system, I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> built the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corresponding target distributions to be used in VOTCA with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> csg_stat. For
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what is worth it, the target distributions of angle and bond 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't seem at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all weird relative to the "real ones", of when non-bonded 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forces exist. And
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then, after having the target distributions, I set up the CG MD 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulations
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> within the IBI to have only bonded potential also. So, besides 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no non-bonded potential optimization, there is also no 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-bonded forces at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all in my CG system. But I dont think this should be a problem, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right? It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> makes sense to entrust the CG bonded potentials to reproduce 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the target
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distributions of the AA bonded potentials.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I did try also, and that is in allignment with your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea, was to set up two IBI runs: (1) one run to optimize
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *only* the potential for the bonds and keep the angle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potential active (in this case the latter comes from a simple 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BI) and (2)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one run to optimize only the potential for the angles and keep 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bond
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potential active (in this case the latter comes from a simple 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BI). In the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case (1) it seems that I converge to a potential for bonds that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is quite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to reproduce the corresponding distribution, while in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case (2) I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> converge more and more to potentials that give super weird 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distributions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (like with three weird peaks, as I showed in the figure above)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Concerning the phase of the system: it is a solid system.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> More specifically, it is a coarsened grained version of ZIF8 in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole repeating unit was assumed to be one bead. I know that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IBI has not at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all been developed for solids and even further not for MOFs - 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the goal is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually to derive potentials in the CG level using many 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strategies (IBI, FM, relative entropy) and evaluate the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> results. In any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case, I dont think that the fact that my system is a xtalline 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solid could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be the reason why my results are super weird (right?). It seems 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like such a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simple system when in the CG level.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For what is worth it, I am also assessing different
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mappings. Following the same strategy of optimizing first 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bonded-potential
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a less coarsened mapping (2 beads), I am able to reach less 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> weird
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> results. For example, you can find below the evolution of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corresponding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distributions as I perform more iterations for this system (it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has one bond
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> type and two angle types). I think there is still a problem 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since we can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see some tendency of the distributions becoming non-smooth as I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iterations, but the results are definitely less weird.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: picture.png]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Em segunda-feira, 24 de abril de 2023 às 20:50:14 UTC+2,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marvin Bernhardt escreveu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Cecília,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I once encountered similar problems with bonded and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-bonded interactions. See Fig. 9 of this paper
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.jctc.2c00665>. In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> short: The problem was that the potential update of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-bonded has some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> influence on the bonded distribution, and vice versa. But the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potential
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update is calculated as if they were independent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fix in my case was to update the two interactions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alternately using `<do_potential>1 0</do_potential>` for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bonded and `<do_potential>0 1</do_potential>` for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-bonded interactions. You could try something similar.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Otherwise, is your system liquid? Are there non-bonded
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interactions that you are optimizing at the same time?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marvin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 16:56:42 UTC+2 Cecília Álvares
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey there,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am currently trying to derive bonded potentials of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very simple CG system (containing only one bond type and one 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> angle type)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using IBI. However, I have been failing miserably at doing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it: instead of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reaching potentials that are better and better at reproducing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the target
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distributions for the bond and for the angle, I end up having 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> weider and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> weider distributions as I do the iterations. I am posting a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plot of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bond and angle distributions to give a glimpse on the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "weirdness". I have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already tried:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (1) providing very refined (small bin size and a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bins) target distributions of excelent quality (meaning not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noisy at all)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the bond and the angle. Similarly, I have also tried 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using less refined
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> target distributions (larger bin sizes and less amount of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bins).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (2) varied a lot the setup in the settings.xml concerning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bin sizes for the distributions to be built at each iteration 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trajectory file. I have tried very small bin sizes as well as 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> large bin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sizes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (3) increasing the size of my simulation box hoping that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe it was all a problem of not having "enough statistics" 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to build good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distributions at each iteration within the trajectory file I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was collecting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from my simulations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> None of these things has worked and I think I ran out of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ideas of what could possibly be the cause of the problem. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any insights?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am also attaching my target distributions (this is the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scenario in which I am feeding target distributions lot of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> points and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smaller bin size) and the settings.xml file for what is worth 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: plots.png]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/votca/220aeac6-1ae0-4ad7-ae1e-6124aa435469n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>


-- 
Christoph Junghans
Web: http://www.compphys.de

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