On 16-01-17 18:16, Dick Hollenbeck wrote: > On 01/15/2017 09:36 AM, Xen wrote: >> Dick Hollenbeck schreef op 12-01-2017 23:00: >> >>> Anyone a CMake guru out there? >> >> I think you should keep things calm and not change for the sake of >> change. >> >> Stability is important. Being dependable, being able to depend on the >> well known is important. >> >> Stop messing with the status quo to no avail. It is good the way it is, >> you know. The more chaos you put in, the more chaos you get out. >> >> I should know :p. >> >> That's all I can say here. > > > You haven't said anything; except that you do not understand that software > development is > change and growth. > > I am a software developer. I ran the open source KiCad project for 7 years, > taking it > from an unusable tar ball to team of thousands of users and over 500 > developers on the > developer's mailing list. That mailing list is up even more now. > > By contrast, there has not been one posting on a vuurmuur developer's mailing > list in over > 2 years: > > https://sourceforge.net/p/vuurmuur/mailman/vuurmuur-devel/ > > I also wrote much of the software that controls the largest power plants in > the USA. And > I've owned software company for 34 years. > > Victor recently asked if anyone wanted to help him. That is a tremendous > first step in > developing a culture beyond one individual. Then, however, the door was > shut. When asked > specifically if he would accept a contribution (before time was spent on it) > he failed to > answer in the affirmative. This is a mistake. An hour reading about CMake > and then an > affirmative answer might have gotten a contribution from me. Sometimes you > have to
The mistake you are making here is that asking for ppl to get involved doesn't mean I can't be picky about what to accept, reject, stimulate or discourage. I had just cleaned up and refactored the current build system to a point where I'm satisfied, so it's now low on my list. There are other things that I would like to talk about much more, things like the quality of the rules we generate, nftables support, improvements to the gui/tui workflow, etc. That said, I did say that if someone wanted to do the work I might reconsider. But I do also give the warning that is not high on *my* list. > compromise as a project leader, just to grow culture and spirit within the > project, to > grow the life in the project. I hand picked my project leader replacement in > the KiCad > project for excellence in this very important personality trait. Gee, isn't that nice? How about honesty for a personality trait? I just gave you my opinion, and you respond with a flame. > CMake is not chaos. CMake is an improvement to the project, and would be a > requirement of > any open source project for which I would ever volunteer for again. > > I do indeed have the expertise to create a CMake build system, and could do > it in 120 > minutes. However my question was very purposeful. I wanted to know how > healthy this > project is, and to get a read on what the depth of interest in it is, so I > could measure > the likely return on any investment that I might make in its development or > use. > > There are often a number of young people who lurk on a development mailing > list that have > development capabilities and who want to get more involved. This was me > throwing bait > into a pond, seeing how much life was in the water. 120 minutes for me is > expensive, by > contrast 120 minutes for a junior in college is less than expensive, it is an > opportunity > to add something to his/her resume. > > >> >> I mean you suggest a solution but then you require a "guru" to actually >> implement it for you. That doesn't sound as easy as you make it appear >> to be. That suggests there is going to be a lot of effort required to >> make it reasonably stable, get everyone (including the main developer) >> acquainted etc. etc. etc. and for what benefit? >> >> It's just sake for the sake of change, that's all. > > > I do not agree. Autotools is crap. Nobody should be using at this point. > > A large number of new projects and many existing projects are choosing CMake > over > autotools, it is not a difficult decision to make, nor to see the superiority. > > Often a project will keep two build systems in play until a level of comfort > is > established on the newer one. > > But at this point I think it is moot. I think Victor was making a half baked > attempt at > convincing even himself that the project warranted any more time of his own > time. Open > source can cause burn out, and the rewards are very very thin, I empathize. > Even after a project reaches critical mass with multiple talented > contributors, that > often becomes a shouting match. There are a lot of misguided assumptions here about me and the project. Since we're lecturing each other, I have 2 tips for you: 1. don't start lecturing ppl if they don't share your priorities right away. 2. don't be rude to me because someone else flame baited you. I just gave you my opinion on your suggestion. -- --------------------------------------------- Victor Julien http://www.inliniac.net/ PGP: http://www.inliniac.net/victorjulien.asc --------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Vuurmuur-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vuurmuur-users
