Let me chime in by trying to restate the problem and why this idea got 
started in the first place.

1. The current home page for Watir (at wtr.rubyforge.com) is hard for 
the community to update. It is a webgen-based website, stored with the 
Watir code base. Any one with commit rights to Watir can modify these 
pages. They also need admin rights to our Rubyforge.org account to post 
updates. To date, only Charley and I have updated this website. Before 
we moved it to webgen (when it was only one or two pages), Paul Rogers 
and Jonathan Kohl also update these pages.

2. People find it confusing that there is no single place where all the 
Watir information can be found. This makes them wonder about the 
community and worry that maybe they are missing something important. At 
the same time, I do believe that all the Watir websites are indexed from 

3. Paul owns watir.com. It currently redirects to wtr.rubyforge.org, but 
could be pointed elsewhere. We also have the ability to redirect 
wtr.rubyforge.org to another site.

4. It was unclear whether it made sense to keep Watir at openqa, as it 
was moving to a selenium focus. For a couple of weeks indeed, openqa was 
renamed seleniumhq.

With this background we made the following plan:

A. We would migrate the confluence and jira from openqa to our own server.
B. We would make the home page of the watir project be in confluence, 
based on a design by Alister (that used a newer version of confluence).

Charley ran into snags with A, and now we are looking into other 
alternatives. Some of the alternatives, frankly, seem to be coming from 
left field, so I am wondering whether there are additional concerns that 
people have, or whether they are simply confused as to what our goals are.

When we started this discussion, the Watir source code was stored in SVN 
at openqa. Since then we've moved it to Github. Some people seem to be 
acting on the idea that our goal is to keep everything together, and 
thus we'd move the wiki and bug tracker to Github as well. I don't think 
that it is practical to migrate from confluence to the wiki on Github. 
Github's wiki is not that great, and we would have to lose a lot of 
information, data, formating, understandability if we did this. I have 
heard good things about Github's bug tracker, but am still unsure 
whether it would be worth the trouble to migrate all the data. We 
currently have an enormous investment in Jira: history, reports, etc.

One nice thing about Jira/Confluence right now is that people can use a 
single sign on for both. This is a feature provided by openqa, that 
would take some work to replicate.

The biggest problem, in my mind, with Jira right now is simply that not 
enough attention is being given to reviewing the bug reports that are 
made with it. But this is probably an issue for a separate thread. Let 
me just say this: If someone were to propose that we move to a different 
bug tracker because it would make it easier for them to review and 
respond to bug reports, then I would be all ears.

So it seems to me that we are now down to two options. Both of these 
keep confluence and Jira at OpenQA.

1. Replace wtr.rubyforge.org with a wordpress instance.
2. Move the homepage to confluence, perhaps getting Patrick to upgrade 
the software.

To my mind, #2 has a few more advantages. Mainly it simplifies things by 
having one less site for users to find/understand and one less system 
for us to maintain. But frankly I'd be happy with either as an 
improvement over what we have right now. (#1 would be easier for more 
people to support and has nifty plugins.) I'm happy to defer to Alister 
on this point, following the implementer's rule: whoever implements it 
makes the rules.


Charley Baker wrote:
> Alister's design on the wordpress instance looks good. I'd definitely 
> pin him as the Watir community leader for watir.com <http://watir.com> 
> going forward and definitely needs to work with Zeljko. They're 
> fortunate enough to share similar time zones, and seem to be working 
> well as a team. I tried getting jira and confluence up on a slice, it 
> is working, but for my efforts, I didn't fare well, and got 'is that 
> all you've done'. It's not easy and we're secure for the meantime with 
> the openqa instances. We do have open source licensing if it comes to 
> that, but given the difficulties on running our own instance, it makes 
> sense to me to put that off for another time.
> There are still some details to work out, but this looks like a viable 
> plan - wordpress on the front end with JIRA still hosted on openqa. 
> Paul needs to be involved in pointing the watir.com <http://watir.com> 
> dns name to it, but otherwise we should be good.
> Bret needs to weigh in as well, and we should make sure we have all 
> the bases covered.
> Charley Baker
> blog: http://blog.charleybaker.org/
> Lead Developer, Watir, http://wtr.rubyforge.org
> QA Architect, Gap Inc Direct
> On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Chuck van der Linden <sqa...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:sqa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>     On Jun 5, 5:07 am, Željko Filipin <zeljko.fili...@wa-research.ch
>     <mailto:zeljko.fili...@wa-research.ch>>
>     wrote:
>     > On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Chuck van der Linden
>     <sqa...@gmail.com <mailto:sqa...@gmail.com>>
>     > wrote:
>     >
>     > > Has Google Code been considered?
>     > > also Github?
>     >
>     > Both Google Code and Github have wiki and bug tracking. The
>     problem with
>     > changing software is that somebody would have to enter all data
>     from old
>     > software into new software. And there is a lot of data...
>     >
>     > Željko
>     Yeah Z, I realize that.  it's just that expense also seemed a big
>     factor, so if we can't find something that's free and lets us run the
>     apps we want, then  obviously we have to balance cost vs moving data.
>     I was wondering about those two in the even that cost turned out to be
>     the deciding factor.
>     I still find it ironic that given it's mission statement, "OpenQA"
>     seems to want to move to focusing on a single solution..
>     Given the seemingly ever closer connections between Watir, things like
>     the WatirCraft Framework, and Cucumber,  one does have to wonder if
>     maybe Github might be the way to go, even if we do have to move
>     data..  Bret sure seemed to have a lot of good things to say about
>     it.   How different is their Wiki from what we run now?
> >

Bret Pettichord
Lead Developer, Watir, www.watir.com
Blog, www.io.com/~wazmo/blog
Twitter, www.twitter.com/bpettichord

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Watir General" group.
To post to this group, send email to watir-general@googlegroups.com
Before posting, please read the following guidelines: 
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
For more options, visit this group at 

Reply via email to