You can view in Wave here: https://wave.google.com/a/wavesandbox.com/#restored:wave:wavesandbox.com!w%252Bsaq8mHMU%2525A
Or read transcript below: Office Hours: 2009-08-20 Welcome to Federation office hours! *Please top post your question or comment about federation to make sure we see it. You can do so by replying to this blip.* *A transcript of this wave will be made publicly available. If you don't want to appear in the transcript, delete your blip after getting a response. Be careful not to remove neighboring blips.* *And don't add robots to this wave!* Aug 20 James Purser: Sigh, you would do a Federation Office Hours the one day I'm at a conference wouldn't you ;) Aug 20 Dmitry Unkovsky: I'm in hope someone will go here and answer a question ;) It happened once :) Aug 20 James Purser: what's the question? Aug 21 Dmitry Unkovsky: It's one blip lower, about extended operations in OT. Aug 20 Dmitry Unkovsky: Probably, I'm late here. Are there any plans to allow extending of OT rules for other types of data? Aug 20 Jochen Bekmann: What kind of data were you thinking of ? Aug 20 Dmitry Unkovsky: Sure, current operations defined on xml are quite universal. And quite any data structure can be represented as xml. But the question is -- is it always possible to map user interactions to OT well? For object like, say, counter, we can't increment it "atomically" with defined OT operations. (For two users incrementing simultaneously value of 3, "insert"-"delete" sequence gives us 4 instead of 5 -- just in idle example) example is rather trivial, but probably there are more. I may think of graphs with edges, nodes, and operations "modify-edge" and "modify-node". The other example can be moving elements within document. If I get it right, when one user edits some subelement B of element A, and the other user moves element A to some other place in document with sequence of "delete","insert" operations, editions of element B by first user made after deletion of A get lost. But sure, for text-based applications currently defined operations represent user interactions pretty well. Did you considered possibility of extended operations? It may prove useful for some applications, was there any discussion on this matter at google? Aug 20 Dmitry Unkovsky: technically, there could be some mechanism for negotiating sets of operations available to federating servers in manner similar to xmpp capabilities discovery. Aug 20 Vadim Barsukov: Perhaps Dmitry already offline. But the question he had already discussed a bit in our group - http://groups.google.com/group/google-wave-russia/msg/c88947e55ad21c05 (russian). I think he is talking about XML. Aug 21 Maxim Vasiliev: handling custom XML is somwehat wider question. i raised it also in wave-api group: http://groups.google.ru/group/google-wave-api/browse_frm/thread/f931c8373ea53830 without any sucess, beside consideration: current API cannot handle xml in any way. Aug 20 Tom Dyer: Hi, What plans does Google have about persistance in the Fedone code? Much talk has been made about a database backend, but I have not seen much evidence of progress.. Cheers Aug 20 Jochen Bekmann: In the short term we do not plan to add a db backend, but have heard of projects aiming to do so. Aug 20 Tom Dyer: OK, Cheers. Out of interest, do you know if this sandbox implimentation has persistance, or is it relying on always staying up? Aug 20 Jochen Bekmann: The sandbox does have persistance. Aug 20 Tom Dyer: Is it in a form that you feel is elegant enough to use on Fedone? So, is the sandbox running very different code to Fedone? Aug 20 Jochen Bekmann: Yes, sandbox is running the full production version of Google Wave, we have discussed elsewhere (e.g. see in this wave below) that it will take a little while before the code is open sourced. Our current database backend will possibly not be easy to open-source as it's in- house technology for now. It should not be too onerous to port it though, and code written for FedOne will certainly be appropriate for use with the production version, provided it uses a production-quality db. Aug 20 Vadim Barsukov: Again, I question. What happens if a wave server - federal participator - stop its work? History of all the waves with its participation will be lost to the participants of this server? Or they will be able to access them by logging on another server? Aug 20 Vadim Barsukov: Sorry, I just want to know - over time or the wrong question? Aug 20 Jochen Bekmann: Generally the waves will be lost. There will be copies in wave servers that are being federated with, so the data will be around, but so far we have not defined a protocol for how this data might be used to revive lost waves. Aug 20 Vadim Barsukov: If we are still working, I ask another question. How to find in the not-published waves? For example, on the corporative wave server.Will the content of the waves indexed with search engines, for example, Google? :) Or we need to connect a special robot to every this conversations? Can a wave server to work as a local search engine? Search only in their own waves. Aug 20 Jochen Bekmann: Non-published waves will not be searchable as it's private data. You can search in your own waves. Published waves may be searchable at some point. Aug 20 Vadim Barsukov: Search in the non-published wave is only possible through the client? But the amount of information can be very large. Aug 20 Jochen Bekmann: That is a question for the API team, though I do expect that given the proper user authentication, it will be possible to search one's waves via the API. Aug 20 Vadim Barsukov: Yes, thanks. I have myself understood ("question about the API"). Thank you! Aug 20 Casey Whitelaw: Chiming in: Search is a completely separate piece of functionality. You can think of a search engine as an agent, with either normal or privileged access to waves. You can build a wave search engine which is just a normal web server (not a wave client), etc. Aug 20 Vadim Barsukov: Thank you for your clarification. Search in the waves - even a very interesting challenge, given the more dynamic wave character. Will there be a special search API? Ohh, OK - this question for the another day. :) Aug 20 Vadim Barsukov: I will ask another question - perhaps naive. :) Can a wave "managing" the program-client? That is, contain the commands (robots? gadgets?) that change the status of the browser. For example, add items to the menu, or open windows, etc. Aug 20 Sam Thorogood (and Jochen Bekmann): In the scope of Federation, sure - since a client might allow robots to do that. However, in the scope of Google's implementation, there are only a limited set of actions that a robot can perform and AFAIK they are only on wave content and not on browser state. Aug 20 Vadim Barsukov: Limitations in the scope of Google's implementation - this is a conceptual solution or just for the time being? There are actually some parts of the UI that are using content stored in waves, though it's not quite clear what all you'd include in "browser status" - window management, for example, is not controlled using waves, but things like the navigation panel content and other window content are (or will be). Aug 20 Vadim Barsukov: If your browser offers this feature (eg, XUL for Mozilla, or JS- plugins in Chrome), it can affect the status of your browser and get a more complete integration of the waves in the client (or even the operating system, such as Google Chrome OS). Or is it too wild fantasy? :) Aug 20 Vadim Barsukov: Here is a similar idea - http://groups.google.com/group/google-wave-api/browse_thread/thread/d1b99258e54fd94c# Aug 20 Jochen Bekmann: We like wild fantasy. Though I'd say right now I'm not aware of plans such as these. Aug 20 Vadim Barsukov: Hello! Today we will discuss only the protocol and federation? Questions about the server FedOne today can be discussed? Aug 20 Benjamin Kalman: Yes, questions about FedOne are good. Aug 20 Vadim Barsukov: In this case, I have a question. But it is not technical but organizational. :) Many wondered whether there is a plan for its development. Will it be brought to a productive state, or will remain only a demo version? Is there a roadmap? Aug 20 Jochen Bekmann: We do have a plan for releasing a production version of our wave server, however we have not put a date on it - currently we are working hard on getting our servers solid in order for us to onboard large numbers of users. As soon as we feel we are done with that work we will be able to bring them into a state suitable for release. I apologise for not being able to give you dates. For those who are keen on running wave servers, we envisage the demo version should be in a pretty good state soon to be used as a basis for a production server by people in the community. Aug 20 Andrew Charlton: How will the embed API work with federated servers, i.e. will I be able to embed waves from my own servers in my own intranet applications without having to connect to Google? Aug 20 Sam Thorogood (and Jochen Bekmann): Not initially. We should explain that Google Wave runs on many different servers, and that the core server, the "wave server" is what we are federating. The bits that support the browser-based client are quite separate from that, and is what is needed for embedding. We do hope to open-source that code too, but it's a while off. There are open-source projects working on clients which may also allow embedding, so that might be something of interest while we work on getting our code ready for open-sourcing. Aug 21 Maxim Vasiliev: in wave-protocol group as well as in wave-api there were raised a couple of questions about exact structure of content document and operations. wave protocol draft in no way specifies it. the last one related to "type" parameter of element and of startElement operation. FedOne handles only one type="line", FedOne- client raises exception unless type is "line". --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Wave Protocol" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/wave-protocol?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
