I am missing some essential data in this thread; Why would web2py be getting invited to the orm discussion in pycon because it is the only one that interoperates w/ gae? included at Guido's suggestion? Are these people ill-willed, and intend to show up just how worst-of-both-worlds this all is in some public forum?
I don't pretend to have the time to know all the subtleties, and all that's involved (indeed, entire _projects_ are focused on just the ORM part). There seems to be specificity missing in this for me. On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Mystylplx <[email protected]> wrote: > > Eh.... so I should write an ORM to wrap a... what would you call it? a > ROM? (relational object mapper?) > > I hate to say it, but if web2py's DAL is the bottom layer I think I > will have to abandon it. It doesn't matter how pretty a house looks if > it's built on an inferior foundation. I know bigtable isn't a "true" > objectstore, but it's close enough. There are real scalability issues > with relational joins. "Cloud" hosting seems to be the wave of the > future, and objectstores scale better. > > I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and learn Django. > > > > If you need an ORM, you can wrap the DAL inside an ORM. I believe > > that is how SQLAlchemy works (models and schemas). That way your ORM > > gets the benefit of DAL abstraction. If you can design a usable ORM > > model that wraps the DAL, others might also be interested. Web2py is > > built in layers, the DAL is the bottom most layer. > > > > Robin > > > > On Mar 2, 5:48 pm, Mystylplx <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I can explain further--relational databases have certain capabilities > > > that objectstores don't, but the same is true in reverse. In a > > > relational/sql db you can't add properties to an object unless you add > > > them to all other objects of the same type. You can't get > > > polymorphism. And 'many to many' relationships require an intermediary > > > table. The problem I'm having is the web2py data model is entirely > > > relational/sql. Bigtable is --essentially-- an objectstore. Using > > > web2py with bigtable means I am left with the least common denominator > > > in terms of functionality. I can't use the relational functionality > > > that bigtable doesn't support, AND I can't use the non-relational > > > functionality that bigtable supports but web2py doesn't. I'd prefer to > > > use an objectstore, but what's the point if I can only get the subset > > > of functionality that an objectstore shares with an rdb? It's like the > > > worst of both worlds. > > > > > I looked through the source for web2py last night and I can see that > > > getting Admin to work under GAE would be a large task. As I said > > > above, I love web2py, but the relational/sql modality for the web2py > > > models is something I don't like. Rails and django both have something > > > closer to an ORM in their models. This is the one area where web2py > > > suffers in comparison to its competitors. > > > > > How about a real ORM in web2py? A way to define data models using > > > classes, including polymorphism, and then screw the sql JOINS and > > > such? > > > > > Just a request. > > > > > On Mar 1, 5:15 pm, mdipierro <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Normally admin is not uploaded in GAE. It is ignored because of this > > > > line in app.yaml: > > > > > > ((admin|examples|welcome)\.tar)| > > > > > > It is ignored because it would be useless. In fact the GAE filesystem > > > > is readonly and you would not be able to write any file. > > > > > > Can you explain more about your issue with web2py modesl vs GAE? > > > > > > Massimo > > > > > > On Mar 1, 6:39 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > I'm having trouble getting the admin app to work under the GAE SDK. > I > > > > > can start web2py under the SDK, but there's no flash screen and no > > > > > widget asking for an administrative password. The reason I want to > > > > > develop directly under the SDK is I want to use google's datastore > api > > > > > directly without going through web2py for that aspect. I'll say I'm > > > > > pretty much in love with web2py except the way it handles models. > I'd > > > > > much rather define persistent classes as with bigtable. After all, > if > > > > > I'm going to be using an objectstore I might as well be able to > take > > > > > advantage of the simplicity and elegance that comes from that. > Seems a > > > > > little strange to have to define tables and fields only to have > web2py > > > > > translate it into classes... > > > > > > > I'm pretty new at this and I hope there's something simple I'm > > > > > missing.... > > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > Myst~ > > > > > On Mar 1, 5:15 pm, mdipierro <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Normally admin is not uploaded in GAE. It is ignored because of this > > > > line in app.yaml: > > > > > > ((admin|examples|welcome)\.tar)| > > > > > > It is ignored because it would be useless. In fact the GAE filesystem > > > > is readonly and you would not be able to write any file. > > > > > > Can you explain more about your issue with web2py modesl vs GAE? > > > > > > Massimo > > > > > > On Mar 1, 6:39 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > I'm having trouble getting the admin app to work under the GAE SDK. > I > > > > > can start web2py under the SDK, but there's no flash screen and no > > > > > widget asking for an administrative password. The reason I want to > > > > > develop directly under the SDK is I want to use google's datastore > api > > > > > directly without going through web2py for that aspect. I'll say I'm > > > > > pretty much in love with web2py except the way it handles models. > I'd > > > > > much rather define persistent classes as with bigtable. After all, > if > > > > > I'm going to be using an objectstore I might as well be able to > take > > > > > advantage of the simplicity and elegance that comes from that. > Seems a > > > > > little strange to have to define tables and fields only to have > web2py > > > > > translate it into classes... > > > > > > > I'm pretty new at this and I hope there's something simple I'm > > > > > missing.... > > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > Myst~ > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "web2py Web Framework" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
