I am agree with many of JoeCodeswell´s points, in my experience, expert
developers reject web2py mostly because, even in the doc, users are
aimed to break the mvc writing code in controllers that belongs to
models or views.
El 04/02/15 a las 12:11, JoeCodeswell escribió:
Dear Dave,
Thanks for the reply. I partially agree. I agree that, "SQLFORM
already takes a lot of the drudgery out of form" [now my words]
generation from an existing table. However, for me, two things apply
to SQLFORM:
1. It breaks MVC, meaning if *I* want to customize the form *I* do it
in a Model or in a Controller Action, *not *in a View. Maybe
there's a way to do this in a View, but *I* don't know how. Here's
a couple of my blog posts motivated by customizing SQLFORM:
1.
Easy to Understand web2py Grid Custom Search
<https://joecodeswell.wordpress.com/2014/07/10/easy-to-understand-web2py-grid-custom-search/>
2.
web2py Field Exegesis
<https://joecodeswell.wordpress.com/2014/05/05/web2py-field-exegesis/>
2. *I* find customization difficult:
1. adding buttons
2. specifying custom validation
3. specifying custom widgets
For points 2.2 & 2.3, updates to the book have helped a lot. Still,
the form is not specified in a View, at least as far as i can figure out.
Lastly, I want to mention 1 more suggestion/request for improving
web2py support for web-devs:
Please find a process to keep the book updated with answers given by
trusted members of the community (Massimo, etc.) given on this group
(and other groups?).
My motivation for this request comes from the fact that within the
last couple of weeks [Jan 2015], i decided to integrate a web2py app
with Dropbox:
1. I copied the code from the book-Other Recipes. I got an error for
which Massimo said, on this group in 2012
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/web2py/R_wPbFtUtc0/sUslRoPeFMQJ>,
"You need to install: https://github.com/enginous/python-dropbox";.
which i did.
2. Then I got a subsequent error for which Massimo said, on this
group again in 2012
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/web2py/Y-u_UiNzTFo/AYjwsdJ3QQcJ>, "Typo
in the book ...".
3. There MAY have been other intervening errors of a similar nature.
There was significant effort on my part required to research this
subject, which, in my estimation, could have been better spent on
thinking about my user's requirements.
*I consider the book the be web2py's Principles of Operation*. I.e.it
is the document that specifies the web2py Framework, describing each
structure/object/function at the level of detail needed to prepare an
Application Programmer to make apps. I borrowed/modified this
definition, as an old IBMer, from "z/Architecture Principles of
Operation
<http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=isg2b9de5f05a9d57819852571c500428f9a>".
Thanks again, Dave.
Thanks to all for the GREAT Community and Framework.
Love and peace,
Joe
On Monday, February 2, 2015 at 12:55:50 PM UTC-8, Dave S wrote:
I find this post to be a lot clearer in terms of understanding
what Joe is getting after than the posts earlier in the thread.
I'm thinking that SQLFORM already takes a lot of the drudgery out
of form design, and so I'm missing what Joe thinks is missing. I
haven't used the MS web design tools much (studied Silverlight 1.1
a couple of years ago), so I'm definitely not a power user
thereof, so I may not have the perspective to evaluate Joe's
request. (I'm also out-of-date in doing Android app dev; that
doesn't use Eclipse Galileo anymore, but I think there was some
similarity between EG and SL design of the visual side.)
/dps
On Saturday, January 31, 2015 at 9:01:41 AM UTC-8, JoeCodeswell
wrote:
Dear Leonel,
I agree that you can and *should* do both. For my web2py
projects, I am BOTH Developer and Administrator, *at* *least
initially*, before i hand it over to my user.
Regarding *my suggestions to improve* the help web2py gives me
with the *Administration Tasks for my users*, my suggestion is
to help *me, as developer,* customize the web2py
Administrative capabilities for them. Possibly choosing from
an easily understood menu of options of say registration/login
types, etc..
Regarding *my suggestions to improve* the help web2py gives me
with the *Website Creation Tasks* *for me as a developer*, I'd
love, for example to have a Form Designer that would generate
easily understandable/tweak-able web2py MVC code, to take the
repeated drudgery out of form generation. I am thinking here,
of the process i used to use in Microsoft Development. I would
* first, use the MS form designer to help me flesh out my
user interface View, making sure to get user buy in,
* and then, hook that/those View(s) up with Model/Controller
code for implementation.
Thanks to all for a GREAT discussion.
Love and peace,
Joe
On Friday, January 30, 2015 at 2:17:51 PM UTC-8, Leonel Câmara
wrote:
I strongly agree with Massimo on this. By making
administrative tasks easier you take that burden out of
many developers. Not every developer is part of a big team
that has one guy just to take care of administrative
stuff. This is very true in the startup market where I
think web2py has an advantage.
There's also another point, if you make web2py easier to
admin it will be easier for different hosting platforms to
support it, this can take even more admin tasks out of the
developers hands (like pythonanywhere already does).
There's no conflict between the two, you can work on
features for both the developers and the administrators,
and specially the poor dudes having to wear both hats. In
the end it's always good for the developers.
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