agree 100 % Sebastian E. Ovide
Sent from Dublin, Ireland On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 1:29 AM, Bottiger <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Work ON the projects, not IN the projects > > Yes, we there are too many large examples and not enough > documentation. Documentation being spread out on AlterEgo is extremely > disorganized. > > > Documentation is definitely a stumbling block. > > I'm going to be brutally honest here. When I first saw Web2Py and that > it was GPL and the main documentation was only available after pay, I > almost dismissed it right away there. > > These two things are community killers. Out of Pylons, Django, and > Ruby on Rails, only Web2Py is GPLed. GPL is comes with many strings > attached compared to BSD and is a legal nightmare for many > corporations to use. If you are afraid of people ripping off Web2Py > and reselling it as a package, I don't think that has happened to > Pylons, Django, or Rails. > > For documentation, only Web2py has a pay for documentation setup. I > realize that the online documentation is there, but it is extremely > disorganized, and a bit of a hassle to look through 10 different > videos and slides that repeat each other 70% of the time. Official > documentation is needed as an organized reference guide. > > Of course, the only person who can decide on this is Massimo. As the > sole copyright holder he must decide whether he wants Web2Py as a > revenue vehicle or encourage growth. > > > On Jul 16, 4:18 pm, waTR <[email protected]> wrote: > > Massimo, thank you for this wonderful framework! BUT YOU WORK TOO > > HARD!!! I remember the first thing I learned about management of > > projects was: "Work ON the projects, not IN the projects! i.e. stop > > coding, start organizing and making systems to organize others to code > > and slowly start pulling yourself higher and higher away from the > > actual work, until you can JUST do spokesperson work. That seems like > > a good roadmap template for you to fill-in the blanks as to how to get > > from A-to-B-to-C. > > > > RE: documentation > > Documentation is definitely a stumbling block. Personally, I bought > > the book for $12, and am happy I did. However, for an open-source > > project to really succeed, it needs to have open-source documentation. > > > > I would like to note, however, that this project is still very young, > > and is doing very well for its age. I would also like to point out > > that Django did not get the django book immediately either. It took a > > few years for the Django book to show up. Django was released as > > public code in 2005 (src: wikipedia) -- developed probably 1-2 yrs > > prior. The djangobook site appeared in Nov 2007, nearly 2 years later > > (src: archive.org). > > > > I would also like to mention that at this point, there is enough > > documentation out there about web2py to not need the book at all, > > however, it is nice to have. Otherwise, the community here I have > > found to be incredibly responsive. > > > > RE: roadmap > > The first thing that needs to happen is that this project needs to set- > > up a foundation. Once that is done, directors can be elected. Once > > that is done, the project can start to organize committees of > > volunteers. I don't see any formalized volunteer management process > > yet... How can a volunteer driven effort succeed without volunteers? > > > > For inspiration about the best organized volunteer contribution > > system, check the KDE project. They have coding requests made public > > so everyone can contribute, and they have varying difficulties, so if > > you are new to coding you can still help. > > > > NOTE! Massimo cannot do any of the above alone. Volunteers are needed. > > I say the first step that needs to happen is that 2 more google groups > > need to be created. This current group renamed to USERS, another group > > added named DEVELOPERS, and another group called FOUNDATION. > > USERS group = help seeking people while learning/making apps with > > web2py > > DEVELOPERS group = help seeking people while adding code to web2py > > code-base > > FOUNDATION group = help / question answers / organization for people > > wanting to contribute. > > > > Main point is not to have these HUGE projects for people to work on, > > but break them down to VERY small parts that someone can do in 10min. > > Therefore, what is ALSO needed, is a task management system. > > > > I.e. for the book: Task 1 = Write an intro, Task 2 = Write some > > simple, well commented, "hello world" code. Anyone in the community > > wanting to help can take-on a task. > > > > MOST IMPORTANT: Stop "roll-your-own" mentality. Not everything needs > > to be web2py. Wiki can be mediaWiki. No one is going to not choose > > web2py because not EVERY single part of the project works on web2py. > > YES, eventually everything will, but not at the beginning. There are > > not enough people involved, and those that are involved don't have > > enough time. > > > > A good place to start would be to add a centralized TASK tracker. I.e. > http://www.mantisbt.org > > A task can be proposed and is added by the volunteer coordinators > > after checking to ensure the task description has enough information > > to complete the task. This is something completely separate from the > > DEVELOPER task list. > > > > On Jul 16, 12:49 am, Bottiger <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >http://www.djangobook.com/license/ > > > > > Copyright 2006 by Adrian Holovaty and Jacob Kaplan-Moss > > > > > Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document > > > under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or > > > any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no > > > Invariant Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A > > > copy of the license is included in the section entitled "GNU Free > > > Documentation License". > > > > > On Jul 15, 3:20 pm, mdipierro <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > What is the license of the DjangoBook? Who owns the copyright? > > > > > > Massimo > > > > > > On Jul 15, 5:13 pm, Bottiger <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > One idea is to do the same thing as DjangoBook.com. Have a freely > > > > > commentable edition online so people can help improve it and you > don't > > > > > have to waste an entire summer writing one. Then you can sell the > > > > > printed version to recover some costs. > > > > > > > On Jul 15, 2:58 pm, mdipierro <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I have sold about 100 printed version before the end of the year > 2008, > > > > > > when PDF was not available. I do not know since then. I suspect > nobody > > > > > > buys the printed book given what it costs. The problem is that > all of > > > > > > the cost is in the overhead. I could reduce the cost to $25 by > > > > > > publishing the printed copy with lulu. For the next version, one > > > > > > option is to give the PDF free and the printed copy on lulu. > > > > > > > > Massimo > > > > > > > > On Jul 15, 4:14 pm, Jonathan Lundell <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Jul 15, 2009, at 1:07 PM, mdipierro wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Would it make a difference it the book were to be free? > > > > > > > > > The book is a very good introduction to and advertisement for > web2py. > > > > > > > The cost of the pdf isn't a big deal, but I think that > purchasing > > > > > > > anything for any price is a much bigger barrier that clicking a > > > > > > > > download link. > > > > > > > > > I'm curious: have you sold a significant number of the physical > books? > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "web2py Web Framework" group. 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