When would an app level plugin get executed? What If I have code I want to execute AFTER plugins?
What if I need a plugin to execute after another plugin, how do you control this? -Thadeus On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 9:25 AM, mdipierro <[email protected]> wrote: > If I understand you are asking for a web2py level plugin system vs an > app level plugin system. This has nothing to do with relocation of > plugins under an app subfolder. Am I correct? > > > On Mar 13, 5:36 am, selecta <[email protected]> wrote: >> If it is possible I am in favor of relocating plug-ins to an extra >> folder since this would ease my development a lot. >> I develop plug-ins for multiple apps (e.g. a tracker plug-in) and I >> use version control. Right now I have to decide which project is >> taking control of developing the plug-in. It works for now but I will >> soon be at a point where I have two separate project with different >> people that both should help to develop the same plug-ins. An extra >> folder for the plugin would allow the plug-in to be under independent >> version control from the rest of the application. >> >> Other than that I really like the current plug-in system. It is just >> like developing a normal web2py app, simple, nothing new! And if I >> read the branding discussion right this is what everybody (including >> me) loves about web2py. I would strongly advise against any solution >> that requires me to gain extra knowledge to create plug-ins. >> >> On Mar 12, 7:08 pm, mdipierro <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > I think this is a different issue. If you relocate plugins but you >> > still have all code in plugins/<name>/models/<something>.py then they >> > would work no differently than now (they would be executed in >> > alphabetical order with the plugin name). To do what you ask you would >> > have to put plugin code in modules and import them (something you can >> > already do). The problem is that you would have to be very explicit >> > and import plugins. Installing them would not be enough and that I do >> > not like (at least not in the general case). >> >> > On Mar 12, 10:36 am, Thadeus Burgess <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > If all plugins are designed to be class-like, then your example of >> > > plugins just need to inherit. >> >> > > The only reason I would be in support for logically changing the >> > > location of plugins is the one of dependencies. >> >> > > Meaning, if you have to specify to web2py when to load a plugin, and >> > > in what order... it can handle the dependencies and execute the needed >> > > ones first. >> >> > > Dependencies are not hard, its quite simple to write some code to do >> > > this (as I do in py2jquery to handle javascript dependencies). As >> > > Massimo said, the difficulty is in the bytecode compiling. >> >> > > I am not convinced there will be any overhead (the slowdown is the 99% >> > > database any ways). It just means web2py will need to be "smarter" >> > > about where stuff is. >> >> > > -Thadeus >> >> > > On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 8:52 AM, mdipierro <[email protected]> >> > > wrote: >> > > > The problem with framework level plugins is that if you pack the app >> > > > and unpack somewhere else then it will not work without the "framework >> > > > level" plugin installed separately. I do not think that is something >> > > > to encourage. Moreover different apps may reply on different versions >> > > > of the plugin and/or need different configuration. >> >> > > > Anyway there are two things that can be done at framework level: 1) >> > > > put models in web2py/site-packages 2) framework level models can be >> > > > defined in modules and put there also; 3) framework level views and >> > > > static file can be stored in a new app designed at hoc for this >> > > > purpose and other app can use them too. >> >> > > > Massimo >> >> > > > On Mar 12, 8:36 am, Alex Fanjul <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > >> Just to clarify it: >> >> > > >> Do we able to conservate my app (rewrited/extended) auth module/model, >> > > >> working alongside "superAuth" thadeus plugin, discarding your >> > > >> framework >> > > >> plugin and system Auth default one? >> > > >> Alex >> >> > > >> El 12/03/2010 15:31, Alex Fanjul escribi : >> >> > > >> > Ok Massimo, >> > > >> > I agree with you in it makes no sense to rewrite a lot of web2py >> > > >> > code. >> >> > > >> > Apart from that argument in favor, there is another I don't know if >> > > >> > it >> > > >> > would be satisfied right now with plugin_name.py convention: >> >> > > >> > -Imagine you write a *framework level plugin* to subsitute auths (or >> > > >> > whatever system feature) views/controllers/models. >> > > >> > -Imagine thadeusb write another *application level plugin* to do the >> > > >> > same called "superAuth" >> > > >> > -Imagine I write an application with an *only modules* extended auth >> > > >> > service with some more fields and stuffs. >> >> > > >> > Do we able to conservate my app rewrited/extended auth module/model >> > > >> > over "superAuth" thadeus plugin, discarting system default one? >> >> > > >> > Just thoughts, >> > > >> > Alex >> >> > > >> > El 12/03/2010 14:01, mdipierro escribi : >> > > >> >> The location of plugins is not a backward compatibility issue. From >> > > >> >> that point of view, we could relocate plugin files. >> > > >> >> The reason I do not want to do is that it is an implementation >> > > >> >> issue >> > > >> >> that requires rewriting a lot of web2py code (particularly for the >> > > >> >> bytecode-compile functionality), that will make web2py slower, not >> > > >> >> faster, and does not seem to add any new feature (except the >> > > >> >> relocation itself). >> > > >> >> The only argument I have heard in favor of relocation is in fact >> > > >> >> that >> > > >> >> code will look cleaner with a new plugins location. I do not >> > > >> >> disagree >> > > >> >> but to users of admin things will look exactly the same (because of >> > > >> >> the logical location according to admin is already the one you >> > > >> >> suggest), to users of the shell models would be scattered and it >> > > >> >> would >> > > >> >> be more difficult to identify order of execution, and you will get >> > > >> >> a >> > > >> >> little bit of cleanness is user code at the expense of lots of >> > > >> >> dirt in >> > > >> >> web2py code (lots of if statements to find out what is where). >> >> > > >> >> I will not do it. If somebody wants to write a fully working proof >> > > >> >> of >> > > >> >> concept implementation to demonstrate that 1) it is not slower; 2) >> > > >> >> it >> > > >> >> can be done without too much extra complexity in web2py source, I >> > > >> >> may >> > > >> >> take the patch. >> >> > > >> >> Massimo >> >> > > >> >> On Mar 12, 4:39 am, Alex Fanjul<[email protected]> wrote: >> > > >> >>> Hi Massimo, >> >> > > >> >>> I haven't said that plugins should have to depend on others, but >> > > >> >>> they >> > > >> >>> should be able to access/play with others to make a trully plugins >> > > >> >>> central network, the dependencies are resoluble at highly level >> > > >> >>> with an >> > > >> >>> exposed convention API like: >> >> > > >> >>> plugin_most_active_users.requires=['comments-1.x.x', 'auth-2.x.x'] >> > > >> >>> plugins['tag_cloud'].requires =['tags-1.2.x'] >> >> > > >> >>> Its only an idea. >> >> > > >> >>> The backward compatibility breaks with the heritance folder >> > > >> >>> structure >> > > >> >>> (as I though you said), isn't it? >> >> > > >> >>> *App Level: (example: plugin for commets)* >> > > >> >>> web2py/applications/my_app/plugins/my_plugin/modules/module*.py >> > > >> >>> web2py/applications/my_app/plugins/my_plugin/views/views*.py >> > > >> >>> web2py/applications/my_app/plugins/my_plugin/controllers/controllers*.py >> >> > > >> >>> web2py/applications/my_app/plugins/my_plugin/static/statics*.jpg >> >> > > >> >>> *Framework Level (example: plugin for ckeditor Editor, or last Wes >> > > >> >>> James >> > > >> >>> coda helper)* >> > > >> >>> web2py/plugins/my_plugin/controllers/controllers*.py >> > > >> >>> web2py/plugins/my_plugin/views/views*.py >> >> > > >> >>> The way to ordering load is down-to-up I think, like kohana >> > > >> >>> does:http://docs.kohanaphp.com/general/modules,http://v3.kohanaphp.com/gui.... >> >> > > >> >>> Also it's very important the hooks >> > > >> >>> <http://docs.kohanaphp.com/general/events> & events >> > > >> >>> <http://docs.kohanaphp.com/general/events> system, as both of you >> > > >> >>> (thadeus, Massimo) talked at the end of the chat: >> >> > > >> >>> There is no calling for new Cache system at all...just was an >> > > >> >>> example... >> >> > > >> >>> regards, >> > > >> >>> Alex >> >> > > >> >>> El 12/03/2010 5:26, mdipierro escribi : >> >> > > >> >>>> I agree with most of what you say. >> > > >> >>>> 99.99% of apps use a single database and so will plugins. This is >> > > >> >>>> because they needs auth to do anything meaningful. >> > > >> >>>> I do not think it is a good idea to have plugins that depend on >> > > >> >>>> each >> > > >> >>>> other. dependencies are a mess to manage. In any language and >> > > >> >>>> any OS I >> > > >> >>>> ever used. plugins with dependencies are cause for trouble. >> > > >> >>>> But I agree that we may build groups of plugins that cooperate >> > > >> >>>> for >> > > >> >>>> some specific tasks (like share access to certain tables and or >> > > >> >>>> certain web services). This will happen for plugins geared toward >> > > >> >>>> specific types of apps so we should not over-engineer it now. >> > > >> >>>> I do not think we need a 2.0 for those things that you asked. We >> > > >> >>>> will >> > > >> >>>> get there in small steps and, at this point, I do not see why >> > > >> >>>> any of >> > > >> >>>> those improvements should be inconsistent with backward >> > > >> >>>> compatibility. >> > > >> >>>> What's your wish list for cache? I never heard anybody calling >> > > >> >>>> for a >> > > >> >>>> new cache system. >> > > >> >>>> Massimo >> > > >> >>>> On Mar 11, 9:02 pm, Alex Fanjul<[email protected]> wrote: >> > > >> >>>>> Very interesting and constructive IRC meeting, congrats to all. >> > > >> >>>>> After >> > > >> >>>>> reading all text I have some comments: >> > > >> >>>>> - Most of the meeting (50% at least) was concerning about *how >> > > >> >>>>> many and >> > > >> >>>>> what databases should plugins have access to*...it seems the >> > > >> >>>>> most >> > > >> >>>>> headache for all, BUT, I'm pretty sure that 99% of today real >> > > >> >>>>> WEB >> > > >> >>>>> applications (and very complex ones) in world uses no more than >> > > >> >>>>> 1 >> > > >> >>>>> database: think of Magento's, Elgg's, Zimbra's, Active Collab's, >> > > >> >>>>> Twitter's, OpenBravo's, Wordpress's, Drupal's, etc. All of them >> > > >> >>>>> use only >> > > >> >>>>> ONE database (maybe clustered, spreaded, mirrored, etc. but >> > > >> >>>>> ONE), and >> > > >> >>>>> many of them has very complex plugins systems. The "problem" >> > > >> >>>>> here, is >> > > >> >>>>> that with web2py its very simple and easy to create a new >> > > >> >>>>> database: just >> > > >> >>>>> do "db=DAL(...)"... and many times we are even "confusing" (in >> > > >> >>>>> the >> > > >> >>>>> right >> > > >> >>>>> sense) databases with tables... A game for us: Tell me more >> > > >> >>>>> than 2 >> > > >> >>>>> real >> >> ... >> >> read more » > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "web2py-users" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/web2py?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "web2py-users" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. 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