On Aug 26, 2009, at 10:47 AM, Ojan Vafai wrote:
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Maciej Stachowiak <[email protected]>
wrote:
On Aug 25, 2009, at 11:21 PM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
Hi everyone,
Recently at Apple we've been considering our plans to implement new
HTML elements from HTML5. I'd like to share our thoughts with the
WebKit community and see if we are in sync before passing this on
to the HTML Working Group. Does anyone have thoughts to add to the
below:
----------
I realized I forgot to cover <command> and <menu>.
- <menu>
The list form of a menu seems straightforward enough, it is good
to have a list type specifically for popup menus. The toolbar form
does not seem fully baked. First, it seems weird to think of a
toolbar as a kind of menu. Second, the rendering is too inflexible
and underspecified for the real Web content authoring use cases for
toolbars. And finally, an important point of toolbars in many
applications is that they can embed custom controls in a flexible
layout that also includes some standard buttons, but <menu
type="toolbar"> does not seem flexible enough to handle this. The
context menu form does seem genuinely useful. But it also seems like
a lot of complexity for the somewhat marginal case of overriding the
context menu. It seems like about a dozen different elements are
allowed, all with different processing requirements. This seems like
overkill for the use case of a context menu. It doesn't even make
much semantic sense for a context menu to contain a button. Overall,
it doesn't seem like the cases of menu list, toolbar and context
menu really share enough behavior or appropriate content model to
make them use the same element.
- <command>
It's unclear if this element is worth having without the use cases
for toolbars or menus, and it also has 0 implementations so far and
seems like it might not be fully baked.
While I don't disagree, I'm a little sad to see these not move
forward in some form. JS libraries currently use a ridiculous amount
of code to create simple flexible toolbars and menus that are
keyboard accessible.
I think part of the problem with <menu> is that it doesn't really
address either of those use cases.
Would be nice if someone with experience here (looking at you Hyatt)
could chime in on whatwg with what a better design would look like
so progress can be made.
I'll talk to Hyatt about this today. I agree that a good way to do
toolbars, context menus, and even your classic list-based hover menu
would be worthwhile. Our concerns are about the current design, and
we're not sure there is time to fix it by Last Call.
I'm going to let this thread go at least a few more days before
compiling the feedback for the HTML WG.
Regards,
Maciej
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