Hi!

On 2006/08/26, at 09:12, David Sanchez wrote:

Of course they do. But for how long?

Besides, any time Apple can just stop them to work with no prior notice. Also, it means there is no bug fixing, no support and no updated documentation.

True, but who needs them anyway? The old tools are cool, but buggy and clearly had many problems. Open source alternatives, like WOLips, are better, and even apple employes use them. So, isn't it a better thing that those 4 people can concentrate on the technology itself, and not on the tools and specially on the Java-Cocoa bridge that gives them a hard time on every new Java version? I honestly do think so. And is Mike and all the other guys beyond WOLips could do what they did with the limited info they had, imagine what they can do now with official support from Apple, and access to the formats and protocols used by the tools.

From what I know Apple's in house people use Eclipse (I maybe wrong but I don't think so)

If that's the case, then the situation is worse than I thought.

Not because Eclipse is a bad environment, but because Apple is not drinking its own Kool-Aid.

Yes it is. iTunes Store is a major business for Apple right now (the most important one, some say). And it totally relies on WO. They eat their own god food, yeah. And they are so cool that they let us taste it as well! :) xCode is a very good environment for Cocoa/ObjC developers, and that's what they are focusing in. They cannot compete with Eclipse and other stuff for Java, because they are SO much better. So, they wont. Why should Apple reinvent the weel?

But, one of the things I like is an integrated environment. If I take apart the Apple made tools (which are deprecated), old documentation (that won't be updated), a very small developing team (even though they might be geniuses, it is a lot of work for 4 people) and I need to use an open source plugin with Eclipse, forums and tutorials from third parties.... At the end, WebObject looks a lot like Cayenne/Tapestry.

Not so. The documentation has been updated until the latest public version (5.3), 5.4 is still in works. It could have some better docs for newbies, I agree with that, but that's WAY DIFFERENT that saying it's old and not updated. The documentation is there, and it's very good. You just have to install Eclipse and WOLips. What's the big deal? Many of us did so, even while xCode and the tools existed, because we prefer Eclipse for one reason or another. We won't see a change there.

And, I won't have to pay for the Tiger Server license to deploy.

No you don't. I have some stuff delpoyed on OS X Client. It's legal and it works as good as in the server. All the deamons and modules are already there - just remove some commented lines on a startup script and let them fly.

I mean, maybe WebObject is superior to Cayenne/Tapestry, I do not know WO that well yet, but I do not see where WO is going.

  WO will live for years.

I love learning about technologies, but if WO is not going anywhere (not better, not worse), sooner or later, competitors are gonna get better tools than WO.

That did not happen on the last 10 years. Maybe SOMEDAY some other technology will be better than WO. So what? On that day, learn it and migrate. Will you learn another technology NOW just because you GUESS that SOMEDAY it will be better than WO? Now that sounds risky to me... a lot more than investing in WO!

Four people is too small. Apple has about 10 thousand employees, and 10 percent of them must be programmers (about 1 thousand, maybe less). If Apple, can only dedicate 4 people to WO, it does not look like they believe in the technology.

I don't believe a company would base one of it's key business in a technology they don't believe in. But that's just me...

Also, in the RoR web page, they state RoR will be included in Leopard.

Of course. As many other stuff, like perl and PHP and Python. RoR is popular and sells. Apple wants to sell servers. So they include RoR. Great!

  I hope I can say... welcome to WO! :)

  Yours

Miguel Arroz


      "I felt like putting a bullet between
       the eyes of every Panda that wouldn't
       scr*w to save its species."       -- Fight Club

Miguel Arroz
http://www.ipragma.com



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