On Mar 29, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Webobjects Developer wrote:
>> WebObjects applications tend to be bigger ones. If your needs
aren't
>> high, you probably go better with PHP or whatever other scripting
>> language. But then your designer may even break your code when he
>> does changes - so, it's up to you.
>
> I've spent a considerable amount of time evaluating WO vs. other
> solutions such as PHP or other Java based solutions; but, in the
end,
> I think the advantages of server administration, EO, and WO
> scalability make it a good choice, even for small/new projects.
>
> I was hoping that others had already solved the problem of
integrating
> web designers into the workflow without going all the way to a full
> blown CMS, which sounds like a great idea for larger projects like
> yours.
>
> Conceptually, this problem seems straightforward to solve. It could
> function similarly to how both WO and PHP function already: the web
> server grabs a page from the site. It scans through to see if
there is
> anything that needs to be handled by WO and then it passes it
off to
> the WO handlers that supply content that gets inserted into the web
> page and served to the user.
You could use SSI to include dynamic parts by calling direct actions.
> I guess the trick is to place all of the .html files in a common
> directory that can be edited by the web designer. Then minimize the
> use of the <webobjects> markup so that the web designer doesn't
have
> to learn much.
I don't think technology is going to do much to compensate for a
designer who does not want to or can't learn new things. If they
can't "get" <webobject name="FirstName"/> what you need is a new
designer.
> The problem with this approach is that new pages necessitate new WO
> components, right? And is WO capable of grabbing the .html files
from
> a location outside the application?
Yes, see http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Programming:WebObjects/
Web_Applications/Development/Custom_Templates
Chuck
> On 3/29/07, Guido Neitzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On 29.03.2007, at 11:41, Mac Developer wrote:
>>
>> > The part that scares me (for which I'm still looking for a
>> solution):
>> >
>> >> ... Normally
>> >> our workflow is to get working HTML mockups for every page
in the
>> >> application and a programmer transfers that to the actual
>> components
>> >> and the application. ...
>> >
>> > This seems like a maintenance headache. If the web designer
>> decides to
>> > make a minor change to the website, it is up to a [costly]
>> programmer
>> > to take the change and put it into the application.
>>
>> You have to be careful with your judgement about maintenance.
>>
>> 1. Content in such systems is normally stored in the database. So,
>> every "standard" change to a page, which is normally a
nightmare for
>> permissions, uploading and so on, can be handled by an admin app.
>>
>> 2. If real minor changes in design are costly, the design is
not made
>> for such a site. Normally you can do a lot of things in CSS.
>>
>> WebObjects applications tend to be bigger ones. If your needs
aren't
>> high, you probably go better with PHP or whatever other scripting
>> language. But then your designer may even break your code when he
>> does changes - so, it's up to you.
>>
>> What I'm currently developing in my spare time is a system that
is a
>> completely dynamic CMS. It can handle multiple domains, sites,
>> wrappers, pages, custom content and so on. More or less EVERY
content
>> is stored in the database. For CSS and images, I create a database
>> entry for information about the file and store the file on the
file
>> server.
>>
>> A designer can go to an admin application and create a new
site, add
>> CSS files, images, and so on to the site. Adding pages is done
in the
>> admin application too - if you just want to add more or less plain
>> HTML pages, there is a "CustomHTMLComponent" you can add to a page
>> object and this is rendered as the content. Every component can
>> request additional styles to be included by the wrapper, the
>> navigation is build dynamically with unordered lists of the active
>> pages, the design happens in CSS and in ordering the elements
on the
>> wrapper and the pages itself.
>>
>> A real drawback of this is, that you need a more powerful
database if
>> the load increases. But one of our production apps is build
similarly
>> and this has handled more than 100k page views per day with web
>> server, application server and database all on a single machine
(Dual
>> G4 867, 2GB RAM).
>>
>> > I've heard this suggestion (of web designer -> programmer ->
online
>> > workflow) from a few people. But surely there must be a
better way!
>> > Isn't this a bottleneck?
>>
>> Actually, no. Not here. If your designer is not too technically
>> inexperienced you can have him working on the components
afterwards.
>>
>> > Also, how would you pass this application on to a customer who
>> might
>> > want to make minor changes to the website without returning
to the
>> > developer?
>>
>> If you pass a WebObjects application to a customer who wants to
make
>> changes, he has to have a certain amount of knowledge. If he
has not
>> - make a service contract.
>>
>> As I said before: average WebObjects applications tend to be
bigger
>> and more complex than the average PHP solutions. It will also
be hard
>> for a customer to find a deployment environment and so on. If
you are
>> really scared of that, use a different tool. Because you will
not be
>> happy with WebObjects.
>>
>> cug
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