Le 2010-09-11 à 00:20, Paul D Yu a écrit : > Ken > > There are many new small companies going to market with WO + Wonder, some > even with D2W with Wonder. Personally, I've got one in production now and > trying to build a second as we speak. In addition, I'm consulting on > another. K12 has MANY WO apps in production serving their entire student > population. Evergent is HUGE.
And Cocktail is even more huge. Perhaps the largest WO system outside Apple in active development. > So lots of good things happening. But every year, we have to have this > conversation. > > Paul > On Sep 11, 2010, at 12:15 AM, Ken Foust wrote: > >> Some more thoughts even if they are total BS >> >> I wonder how many people still use D2W ? >> I would say fold project wonder into WO >> bring back WOB in HTML 5 >> Even if you make WOB a stand alone Apple Dev App leaving WO open-source >> If D2W is outdated - dump it >> Get on the tutorials - it is the way forward >> You could even pick real apps to to a tutorial and all the gurus could join >> it. >> This may be far fetched but just think - If all you guys got together and >> say did a tutorial based on a WO-ebay >> you could even launch it and share in the profits. >> get rid of the fragmentation >> one click install and be ready to rock >> How many "New" companies are moving to WO >> How are you going to market >> >> >> On Sep 10, 2010, at 6:01 PM, [email protected] wrote: >> >>> Send Webobjects-dev mailing list submissions to >>> [email protected] >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/webobjects-dev >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> [email protected] >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> [email protected] >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than "Re: Contents of Webobjects-dev digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >>> (Pascal Robert) >>> 2. Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >>> (Chuck Hill) >>> 3. Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >>> (Pascal Robert) >>> 4. Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >>> (Jeremy Matthews) >>> 5. Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >>> (Andr? Mitra) >>> 6. WOCommunity 2010 surveys (Pascal Robert) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 19:49:24 -0400 >>> From: Pascal Robert <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >>> To: Michael Gargano <[email protected]> >>> Cc: Apple WO-Dev <[email protected]> >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>> >>> Yes, the wiki do need a good cleanup. About the videos, that's one of my >>> options for my book/big tutorial... >>> >>>> Looking at it as someone just starting to get very serious about WO.... >>>> The community needs videos that describe everything from the ground level >>>> up. Not just here's how to install WO and "Hello World" with every other >>>> video being fairly advanced. To much is assumed for beginners. Also, the >>>> wiki needs an enema. As I learn more I hope I can help clean it (a lot of >>>> the stuff in there is outdated). Maybe starting from scratch in a new >>>> wiki or blog would be best. Other than that the community has been >>>> extremely helpful overall! >>>> >>>> >>>> -Mike >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 7:39 PM, Pascal Robert wrote: >>>> >>>>> And we will try to help out the community even more. I have a couple of >>>>> ideas about that... >>>>> >>>>>> In the meantime, while we wait for the apocalypse, whoever wants to keep >>>>>> making apps with Java and WebObjects is welcome to hang around. >>>>>> >>>>>> ms >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:43 PM, Ken Foust wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> From the outside looking in: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It appears to me as thought WO is on the end of life list. As good as >>>>>>> it may be I don't suspect in can survive in the future. >>>>>>> Apple has elected to leave web development to the open-source. I would >>>>>>> suspect they only possible way Apple can compete in the >>>>>>> Enterprise market is to make it proprietary and in ObjC. Short of that >>>>>>> you have too many people working for free on Rails, Grails and all >>>>>>> the open-source programs. >>>>>>> There is no way to get enough new users to come aboard as WO now has >>>>>>> poor documentation and terrible tutorials. >>>>>>> Sorry if I offend anyone but it is what it is. >>>>>>> For you gurus to understand it completely - leaves you in a world of >>>>>>> your own, but selling the concept I believe is difficult and will even >>>>>>> get more >>>>>>> difficult. >>>>>>> Hell I think Java is on the way out along with Sun and Oracle. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Apple has always had the proprietary followers and they could put off a >>>>>>> brilliant app for web development should they choose. In addition >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> market share is now large enough to support the idea. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> my two cents >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 1:02 PM, André Mitra wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> except Mathematica :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2010-09-10, at 9:26 AM, Amiel Montecillo wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mike is scary somtimes .... ;) But I agree with him that there is no >>>>>>>>> 1 tool that does everything. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> Amiel >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Mike Schrag <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Here's my slightly less grumpy response :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Apple, like any smart company, makes technology decisions based on >>>>>>>>> lots of variables -- what technology makes sense? what technology >>>>>>>>> doesn't make sense? what is the expertise of our current staffing? >>>>>>>>> what are the goals for the project? etc ... I love WO, but I'm also >>>>>>>>> the first to admit that WO and EOF aren't the right fit for every >>>>>>>>> problem. There are parts of WOF and EOF that drive me crazy, and >>>>>>>>> there are parts that are amazing. I also don't think that being WO >>>>>>>>> inherently makes you scalable any more than I think being a Rails app >>>>>>>>> makes you inherently unscalable. It's just like the NoSQL vs >>>>>>>>> Relational debate. Are relational databases dead? No. That's just >>>>>>>>> silly. But do NoSQL databases have a place? Absolutely -- they bring >>>>>>>>> value to a certain set of problems that relational doesn't address >>>>>>>>> well. Likewise, Apple has public web properties that are static html, >>>>>>>>> php, struts, jsf, jsp, sproutcore, webobjects, and I'm sure others >>>>>>>>> and there are lots of different reasons in each >>> of those cases why decisions were made one way or another. In any complex >>> system, you're probably going to end up with a mix of technologies. As far >>> as "details," you're just not going to get them because Apple doesn't roll >>> that way. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ms >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 2:54 AM, Mertz Stéphan wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The new 'the Sales and Trend reporting module' of iTunes Connect is >>>>>>>>>> develop with JSF instead of WebObjects. >>>>>>>>>> Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Does someone know what is powering the new Ping social network ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Stéphan _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/bosyotech%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> socket error: unable to connect to 127.0.0.1 >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/andre%40geometria.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/fousto%40me.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca >>>>>> >>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mgargano%40me.com >>>>> >>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>> >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> http://lists.apple.com/pipermail/webobjects-dev/attachments/20100910/54e65229/attachment.html >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 16:51:45 -0700 >>> From: Chuck Hill <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >>> To: Pascal Robert <[email protected]> >>> Cc: Apple WO-Dev <[email protected]> >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>> >>> Or we could just find someplace dark to hide and wait for it all to end. >>> In the meantime, I have a lot of work to do... >>> >>> >>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Pascal Robert wrote: >>> >>>> And we will try to help out the community even more. I have a couple of >>>> ideas about that... >>>> >>>>> In the meantime, while we wait for the apocalypse, whoever wants to keep >>>>> making apps with Java and WebObjects is welcome to hang around. >>>>> >>>>> ms >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:43 PM, Ken Foust wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From the outside looking in: >>>>>> >>>>>> It appears to me as thought WO is on the end of life list. As good as >>>>>> it may be I don't suspect in can survive in the future. >>>>>> Apple has elected to leave web development to the open-source. I would >>>>>> suspect they only possible way Apple can compete in the >>>>>> Enterprise market is to make it proprietary and in ObjC. Short of that >>>>>> you have too many people working for free on Rails, Grails and all >>>>>> the open-source programs. >>>>>> There is no way to get enough new users to come aboard as WO now has >>>>>> poor documentation and terrible tutorials. >>>>>> Sorry if I offend anyone but it is what it is. >>>>>> For you gurus to understand it completely - leaves you in a world of >>>>>> your own, but selling the concept I believe is difficult and will even >>>>>> get more >>>>>> difficult. >>>>>> Hell I think Java is on the way out along with Sun and Oracle. >>>>>> >>>>>> Apple has always had the proprietary followers and they could put off a >>>>>> brilliant app for web development should they choose. In addition their >>>>>> market share is now large enough to support the idea. >>>>>> >>>>>> my two cents >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 1:02 PM, André Mitra wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> except Mathematica :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2010-09-10, at 9:26 AM, Amiel Montecillo wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mike is scary somtimes .... ;) But I agree with him that there is no 1 >>>>>>>> tool that does everything. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Amiel >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Mike Schrag <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> Here's my slightly less grumpy response :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Apple, like any smart company, makes technology decisions based on >>>>>>>> lots of variables -- what technology makes sense? what technology >>>>>>>> doesn't make sense? what is the expertise of our current staffing? >>>>>>>> what are the goals for the project? etc ... I love WO, but I'm also >>>>>>>> the first to admit that WO and EOF aren't the right fit for every >>>>>>>> problem. There are parts of WOF and EOF that drive me crazy, and there >>>>>>>> are parts that are amazing. I also don't think that being WO >>>>>>>> inherently makes you scalable any more than I think being a Rails app >>>>>>>> makes you inherently unscalable. It's just like the NoSQL vs >>>>>>>> Relational debate. Are relational databases dead? No. That's just >>>>>>>> silly. But do NoSQL databases have a place? Absolutely -- they bring >>>>>>>> value to a certain set of problems that relational doesn't address >>>>>>>> well. Likewise, Apple has public web properties that are static html, >>>>>>>> php, struts, jsf, jsp, sproutcore, webobjects, and I'm sure others and >>>>>>>> there are lots of different reasons in each >>> of those cases why decisions were made one way or another. In any complex >>> system, you're probably going to end up with a mix of technologies. As far >>> as "details," you're just not going to get them because Apple doesn't roll >>> that way. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ms >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 2:54 AM, Mertz Stéphan wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The new 'the Sales and Trend reporting module' of iTunes Connect is >>>>>>>>> develop with JSF instead of WebObjects. >>>>>>>>> Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Does someone know what is powering the new Ping social network ? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Stéphan _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/bosyotech%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> socket error: unable to connect to 127.0.0.1 >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/andre%40geometria.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/fousto%40me.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com >>>>>> >>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca >>>>> >>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net >>>> >>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>> >>> -- >>> Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development >>> >>> Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall >>> knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems. >>> http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>> Name: smime.p7s >>> Type: application/pkcs7-signature >>> Size: 3927 bytes >>> Desc: not available >>> Url : >>> http://lists.apple.com/pipermail/webobjects-dev/attachments/20100910/83a08295/smime.bin >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 3 >>> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 19:52:38 -0400 >>> From: Pascal Robert <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >>> To: Chuck Hill <[email protected]> >>> Cc: Apple WO-Dev <[email protected]> >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >>> >>> >>> Le 2010-09-10 à 19:51, Chuck Hill a écrit : >>> >>>> Or we could just find someplace dark to hide and wait for it all to end. >>>> In the meantime, I have a lot of work to do... >>> >>> We just have to wait two years :-) >>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Pascal Robert wrote: >>>> >>>>> And we will try to help out the community even more. I have a couple of >>>>> ideas about that... >>>>> >>>>>> In the meantime, while we wait for the apocalypse, whoever wants to keep >>>>>> making apps with Java and WebObjects is welcome to hang around. >>>>>> >>>>>> ms >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:43 PM, Ken Foust wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> From the outside looking in: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It appears to me as thought WO is on the end of life list. As good as >>>>>>> it may be I don't suspect in can survive in the future. >>>>>>> Apple has elected to leave web development to the open-source. I would >>>>>>> suspect they only possible way Apple can compete in the >>>>>>> Enterprise market is to make it proprietary and in ObjC. Short of that >>>>>>> you have too many people working for free on Rails, Grails and all >>>>>>> the open-source programs. >>>>>>> There is no way to get enough new users to come aboard as WO now has >>>>>>> poor documentation and terrible tutorials. >>>>>>> Sorry if I offend anyone but it is what it is. >>>>>>> For you gurus to understand it completely - leaves you in a world of >>>>>>> your own, but selling the concept I believe is difficult and will even >>>>>>> get more >>>>>>> difficult. >>>>>>> Hell I think Java is on the way out along with Sun and Oracle. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Apple has always had the proprietary followers and they could put off a >>>>>>> brilliant app for web development should they choose. In addition >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> market share is now large enough to support the idea. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> my two cents >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 1:02 PM, André Mitra wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> except Mathematica :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2010-09-10, at 9:26 AM, Amiel Montecillo wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mike is scary somtimes .... ;) But I agree with him that there is no >>>>>>>>> 1 tool that does everything. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> Amiel >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Mike Schrag <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Here's my slightly less grumpy response :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Apple, like any smart company, makes technology decisions based on >>>>>>>>> lots of variables -- what technology makes sense? what technology >>>>>>>>> doesn't make sense? what is the expertise of our current staffing? >>>>>>>>> what are the goals for the project? etc ... I love WO, but I'm also >>>>>>>>> the first to admit that WO and EOF aren't the right fit for every >>>>>>>>> problem. There are parts of WOF and EOF that drive me crazy, and >>>>>>>>> there are parts that are amazing. I also don't think that being WO >>>>>>>>> inherently makes you scalable any more than I think being a Rails app >>>>>>>>> makes you inherently unscalable. It's just like the NoSQL vs >>>>>>>>> Relational debate. Are relational databases dead? No. That's just >>>>>>>>> silly. But do NoSQL databases have a place? Absolutely -- they bring >>>>>>>>> value to a certain set of problems that relational doesn't address >>>>>>>>> well. Likewise, Apple has public web properties that are static html, >>>>>>>>> php, struts, jsf, jsp, sproutcore, webobjects, and I'm sure others >>>>>>>>> and there are lots of different reasons in each >>> of those cases why decisions were made one way or another. In any complex >>> system, you're probably going to end up with a mix of technologies. As far >>> as "details," you're just not going to get them because Apple doesn't roll >>> that way. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ms >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 2:54 AM, Mertz Stéphan wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The new 'the Sales and Trend reporting module' of iTunes Connect is >>>>>>>>>> develop with JSF instead of WebObjects. >>>>>>>>>> Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Does someone know what is powering the new Ping social network ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Stéphan _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/bosyotech%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> socket error: unable to connect to 127.0.0.1 >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/andre%40geometria.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/fousto%40me.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca >>>>>> >>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net >>>>> >>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development >>>> >>>> Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall >>>> knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems. >>>> http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 4 >>> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 19:56:45 -0400 >>> From: Jeremy Matthews <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >>> To: [email protected] >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>> >>> Since I'm in and out of the WO world, I can say that it was hardest for me >>> to get updated documentation, sample code, examples, podcasts, etc. >>> >>> News and information appears sporadic and sparse...and not just on WO, but >>> with the rest of the stuff WO devs use (Wonder, Eclipse config, etc). >>> >>> The folks on this list are fantastic, but I don't view them as my personal >>> resource for every single WO question out there, and the ones I had (or >>> have) tend to be the same ones that those before me had as well. The >>> community is small...GREAT, but small. So when I have a tough question >>> (which happens), it seems like the same few folks are answering. It makes >>> me leery for the future - if Chuck and Kieran get hit by a bus, I would be >>> going to the nearest bar and running a very large tab! >>> >>> Thanks, >>> jeremy >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 5 >>> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 20:00:22 -0400 >>> From: Andr? Mitra <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >>> To: Chuck Hill <[email protected]> >>> Cc: Apple WO-Dev <[email protected]> >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >>> >>> Yes, we need another book from you! >>> >>> On 2010-09-10, at 7:51 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: >>> >>>> Or we could just find someplace dark to hide and wait for it all to end. >>>> In the meantime, I have a lot of work to do... >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Pascal Robert wrote: >>>> >>>>> And we will try to help out the community even more. I have a couple of >>>>> ideas about that... >>>>> >>>>>> In the meantime, while we wait for the apocalypse, whoever wants to keep >>>>>> making apps with Java and WebObjects is welcome to hang around. >>>>>> >>>>>> ms >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:43 PM, Ken Foust wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> From the outside looking in: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It appears to me as thought WO is on the end of life list. As good as >>>>>>> it may be I don't suspect in can survive in the future. >>>>>>> Apple has elected to leave web development to the open-source. I would >>>>>>> suspect they only possible way Apple can compete in the >>>>>>> Enterprise market is to make it proprietary and in ObjC. Short of that >>>>>>> you have too many people working for free on Rails, Grails and all >>>>>>> the open-source programs. >>>>>>> There is no way to get enough new users to come aboard as WO now has >>>>>>> poor documentation and terrible tutorials. >>>>>>> Sorry if I offend anyone but it is what it is. >>>>>>> For you gurus to understand it completely - leaves you in a world of >>>>>>> your own, but selling the concept I believe is difficult and will even >>>>>>> get more >>>>>>> difficult. >>>>>>> Hell I think Java is on the way out along with Sun and Oracle. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Apple has always had the proprietary followers and they could put off a >>>>>>> brilliant app for web development should they choose. In addition >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> market share is now large enough to support the idea. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> my two cents >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 1:02 PM, André Mitra wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> except Mathematica :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2010-09-10, at 9:26 AM, Amiel Montecillo wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mike is scary somtimes .... ;) But I agree with him that there is no >>>>>>>>> 1 tool that does everything. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> Amiel >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Mike Schrag <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Here's my slightly less grumpy response :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Apple, like any smart company, makes technology decisions based on >>>>>>>>> lots of variables -- what technology makes sense? what technology >>>>>>>>> doesn't make sense? what is the expertise of our current staffing? >>>>>>>>> what are the goals for the project? etc ... I love WO, but I'm also >>>>>>>>> the first to admit that WO and EOF aren't the right fit for every >>>>>>>>> problem. There are parts of WOF and EOF that drive me crazy, and >>>>>>>>> there are parts that are amazing. I also don't think that being WO >>>>>>>>> inherently makes you scalable any more than I think being a Rails app >>>>>>>>> makes you inherently unscalable. It's just like the NoSQL vs >>>>>>>>> Relational debate. Are relational databases dead? No. That's just >>>>>>>>> silly. But do NoSQL databases have a place? Absolutely -- they bring >>>>>>>>> value to a certain set of problems that relational doesn't address >>>>>>>>> well. Likewise, Apple has public web properties that are static html, >>>>>>>>> php, struts, jsf, jsp, sproutcore, webobjects, and I'm sure others >>>>>>>>> and there are lots of different reasons in each >>> of those cases why decisions were made one way or another. In any complex >>> system, you're probably going to end up with a mix of technologies. As far >>> as "details," you're just not going to get them because Apple doesn't roll >>> that way. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ms >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 2:54 AM, Mertz Stéphan wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The new 'the Sales and Trend reporting module' of iTunes Connect is >>>>>>>>>> develop with JSF instead of WebObjects. >>>>>>>>>> Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Does someone know what is powering the new Ping social network ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Stéphan _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/bosyotech%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> socket error: unable to connect to 127.0.0.1 >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/andre%40geometria.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/fousto%40me.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca >>>>>> >>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net >>>>> >>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development >>>> >>>> Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall >>>> knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems. >>>> http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/andre%40geometria.net >>>> >>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 6 >>> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 20:00:43 -0400 >>> From: Pascal Robert <[email protected]> >>> Subject: WOCommunity 2010 surveys >>> To: Apple WO-Dev <[email protected]> >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> Ok guys, >>> >>> While I'm listening to all WOWODC 2010 recordings, I'm preparing the 2010 >>> surveys. I have put the surveys in the wiki so people can add suggestions >>> and comments before I open the survey. >>> >>> Organization Survey : http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/x/lYF9 >>> >>> Individual Survey : http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/x/l4F9 >>> >>> Will also prepare a survey specific to WOWODC later. >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> http://lists.apple.com/pipermail/webobjects-dev/attachments/20100910/50dd57a2/attachment.html >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Webobjects-dev mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/webobjects-dev >>> >>> End of Webobjects-dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue 555 >>> ********************************************** >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/pyu%40mac.com >> >> This email sent to [email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca > > This email sent to [email protected] _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to [email protected]
