Wow! I feel a lot better now. I said "this is a talented and generous group of people" and it just proved itself again.
(a) my apologies Pascal .. of all the people's names I could screw up, yours is most inappropriate. (b) Chuck was 100% right on the spilt install suggestion (I claim the small boast that I found it before reading his email!) (c) There is a lot to read in the three replies so far. I will read, digest and respond as necessary. (d) I'm back running W6 !! (e) I will contribute to the project. Thank you .. very much, Gavin On Jan 14, 2013, at 5:44 PM, Johann Werner <j...@oyosys.de> wrote: > > Hi Gavin, > > Am 14.01.2013 um 20:55 schrieb Gavin Eadie <ga...@umich.edu>: > >> On Jan 14, 2013, at 12:25 PM, James Cicenia <ja...@jimijon.com> wrote: >> >>> Make sure in your Eclipse Preferences --> WOLips--> Build Preferences >>> settings you don't have "Generate Bundle" checked. >>> >>> That has bit me twice now and consumed many frustrating hours. >> >> A diversion from a grumpy Gavin using "Generate Bundle" as an example of my >> trouble. >> >> >> I've been programming using WebObjects, off and on, for ten years (and using >> Wonder for the last six/seven), and still haven't a clue what "Generate >> Bundle" actually means or does. The most cogent description found by >> searching for the phrase in the WOCommunity web site is, "A bundleless build >> means that you have unchecked the build option Generate bundles within the >> WOLips preferences" .. yippee! I would like to fix things like that for the >> next confused person. > > the problem lies in the complexity of a full fledged WO development: you need > WO, Eclipse, WOLips, Wonder, Java, property files, developer tools, … that > makes it easy to get something wrong and difficult to understand all the > inner workings and interactions. For most people things like bundleless > builds should be an unimportant detail and just a free enhancement for those > who know (or even need) that feature. That it was needed for James to fix his > problem seems not right but is probably due to the aforementioned complexity > and the resulting multitude of different installations/settings that are > possible. > >> I applaud Robert's (and everyone's) work on Wonder 6 without reservation, >> and I sincerely wish I could contribute to it but I feel just enough below >> the "expert" level to doubt my abilities to do that. > > Of course many things are complicated (or at least seem so) and feeling > daunted to change anything in Wonder is a normal reaction–keep in mind that > Wonder is the collected knowledge of so many developers contributing over so > many years not to count all the effort and ideas NeXT put into WO and its > underlying design! But then we all have begun with no knowledge at all and > are now nonetheless creating applications and frameworks with it. Don't think > that you have to be an expert to be able to add anything to Wonder. Sure > there are parts in Wonder you need to get your head wrapped around–even twice > or thrice ;)–but that's only a part of it. > > There are so many things that can be done (and have to be done) in Wonder > that doesn't need you to have a doctor's degree in computer science. Let it > be simple things like the addition/correction of Javadocs, renaming of > cryptic variable names to more meaningful ones, adding generics or like you > said "to fix things like that for the next confused person" by contributing > to the wiki. Everyone can take an active part in the community. Don't think > that that type of contribution is worth less than a complete framework that > will cut the development time of everyone's next big project by half. In sum > even those little enhancements will add value, make it easier for the next > person to understand / use the code and to contribute himself. And with every > commit and change you make you gain more insight in Wonder's code and results > in you creating better apps or develop them faster (by knowing where to look > for a specific method, by using existing code instead of reinventing the > wheel, …) and finally being able to make more complex changes in Wonder. > > I hope this doesn't sound too pathetic but I think the community as a whole > has a lot more potential to make Wonder even more… wonderful. You think you > aren't good enough to create the Next Big Thing? Then make your Next Less Big > Thing, even then there will be many people appreciating it. You are not sure > if your patch is good / correct / appropriate? Don't hesitate to make a pull > request, github has such great features to discuss pull requests and annotate > the code with comments and questions waiting to be used. You are saying that > you don't have so much time left for such "unpaid work"? In my experience the > most difficult part is to know what is actually in Wonder. Wonder is such a > big tile of code and ideas that sometimes it is literally a search for a > needle in a haystack to find a class or method that does exactly what you > need just in the moment you need it. Knowing what Wonder already offers you > for free makes it easier to tell your client what you can do for him and how > much time it will take to create his application. > > Ok, have to stop here now ;-) > >> For another example, I've no idea why *.api files are included in a >> deployment build when they are a purely build-time artifact (aren't they?). >> My version of build.xml hasn't copied them to a build *.woa (or *.war) for >> many years so I think I'm right -- but the WOLips build.xml does copy them >> to Resources and that's so engrained in WOLips that it must be intentional >> (yes/no?). Should I submit an update via git to improve this build.xml is >> this, and other, ways? My feeling is, "No Way!" -- there's hardly a more >> critical file in W6 -- I'd be crazy to touch it! > > Uhm, keep those api files for now, there are some ideas I have in mind, just > have to find… some… spare… time :-O > >> FWIW: I'm grumpy because I'm caught, again, with a scenario that baffles me >> -- an app that works correctly on my development Mac that when, when rsync'd >> to Amazon EC2, doesn't (clicking in an Ajax.framework component doesn't fire >> the "action" method). This behavior started when I moved to Wonder 6 so I >> need to reverse that decision, and stop using W6, to stay productive. > > That's no good. But it must be something wrong in your deployment. Did you > check your browser if it gets all resources, are there any javascript errors? > Does it work with Wonder 5.8.2? > > jw > >> That puzzle plays into this message too. I'm good enough at this stuff that >> I could eventually find the cause, most likely something I missed, less >> likely a bug, version skew, etc, by diverting time from my paid work and >> digging into this, but it's not worth it (at least not this month) because I >> have a product to ship. That doesn't improve my mood -- I'm a devotee of >> this technology, I'm a believer in open software, this is a talented and >> generous group of people -- I'd love to contribute, but don't feel that I >> can, that feels wrong in so many ways. >> >> >> Does this dilemma strike an accord with anyone? Actually, I know the answer >> to that is "Yes" (if you have personal copies of Wonder or WOLips that you >> use on a regular basis, it should be familiar). >> >> I feel quite uncomfortable sending this message -- it was generated out of a >> long felt frustration and triggered by James' ".. has bit me twice now and >> consumed many frustrating hours", and would be much better as part of a >> face-to-face conversation but that's not an option. In no way is it my >> intent to brush anyone's fur the wrong way. > > _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
