Fashion is fun for a season.....

Fine clothing gets handed down through the generations....
My son is currently hiking the Rockies wearing the good flannel shirts I wore 
in the 70s....

The WO App we began developing in the late 90s is still in service and simply 
does't break....

I know how I prefer to spend my money......

:-)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel M. Benisch CPCU, President                                         
973-992-6300 x303
PaperFree Corporation                                                   
973-992-6666 FAX
909 Regal Boulevard                                                     
[email protected]
Livingston, NJ 07039-8249           WE CREATE PRODUCTS WE WOULD WANT TO USE!

On Mar 7, 2014, at 11:02 AM, Jesse Tayler wrote:

> 
> You know, I still get far and away the best results using WO.
> 
> I’ve been using Mongo and Node and it’s fine…I guess…if you want javascript 
> running your server.
> 
> People say you can do all these cool things, but it seems to me that mongo 
> stores arbitrary stuff that get you into trouble down the road — frankly, 
> rows and columns still make sense to me.
> 
> Node? Fine, I guess it’s easy to setup and learn and run— it sure is 
> lightweight!  but then you end up with javascript people who hack things, and 
> again, over time it does’t feel that much better to me.
> 
> NoSql? seems to be a relational database underneath anyway, so it’s fine I 
> guess — but was it something I was needing?
> 
> so, pick your poisons I guess.
> 
> WO is dead, long live WO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 7, 2014, at 10:50 AM, James Cicenia <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> Yep. WO is dead. 
>> 
>> I was thinking of starting learning Ruby. I love Objective-C and iPhone 
>> development. And now was thinking about Node or Ruby for the back end. 
>> Thoughts?
>> 
>> This also has been the finest list I have ever had the joy of participating. 
>> Everyone has helped, educated and scolded me to create some great 
>> applications. And so I ask the list.
>> 
>> What will be in your wallet without WO?
>> 
>> 
>> PS: I also want to thank Chuck, Pascal and Ramsey specifically who helped 
>> make my WO Apps and D2W Rock! And of course everyone else including the 
>> always wonderfully cranky Anjo.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> James
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mar 7, 2014, at 9:22 AM, Daniel Mejia <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I would like to share my experience with WO.
>>> 
>>> We have developed many systems with WO, some of them was for a big 
>>> telephone company here in Mexico. After some changes in the IT department 
>>> in this company they decided to change all the system developed with WO. 
>>> They call  HP, MS and many other companies to get a proposal for the change 
>>> of this systems, after many meetings with these people they decided to 
>>> leave the system because the cost and time of development was out of they 
>>> budget (we have developed that systems in a very short time and the cost 
>>> was small compared with the other companies because  all the facilities of 
>>> WO). The system survived some time but finally the get the money and 
>>> changed the systems. 
>>> 
>>> For a long time I was afraid to leave the WO dev tools. I have developed 
>>> many applications and I can’t find any thing close to this tools. But for 
>>> customers decision we need to look for new tools and luckily we have found 
>>> tools that let us forget of the awesome of WO.
>>> 
>>> We have developed with Entity Framework, XAML and C#, VisualStudio, not 
>>> perfect but for many systems has everything that you need.
>>> 
>>> Other tool that we have used for a small (tiny) projects is Groovy on 
>>> Grails. Fast, easy to learn, develop and deploy.
>>> 
>>> Now we are very excited using the new JavaScript tools like SproutCore, 
>>> Ember, nodeJS, MongoDB, etc.. The things that you can achieve with this 
>>> tools are amazing. Most of the people behind SproutCore and Ember have 
>>> worked for Apple.
>>> 
>>> Before we found this platforms we lost projects because the lack of enough 
>>> developers to support the WO systems and the stories in Internet that said 
>>> WO is dead (We know is not dead but is very hard to convince the other 
>>> people).
>>> 
>>> I'm still using WO for internal and personal projects, but now I’m 
>>> migrating everything to the JavaScript world.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Daniel.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> On Mar 7, 2014, at 4:34, [email protected] wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: Markus Ruggiero <[email protected]>
>>>> Subject: Re: WebObjects-Projects?
>>>> Date: March 7, 2014 at 4:34:50 CST
>>>> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 05.03.2014, at 12:37, Jürgen Simon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> 
>>>>> this is not a technical inquiry, more a temperature check on the business 
>>>>> side of WebObjects. It is my impression that at least in Germany, after 
>>>>> the 2008/2009 crisis the market for WebObjects-projects has really been 
>>>>> down a lot. I have been looking hi and lo for opportunities to work with 
>>>>> WO again, but apart from self-initiated projects there was nothing going 
>>>>> on.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Is this perception limited to Germany or is it even just me? Are there 
>>>>> any project marketplaces for WO that I am not aware of? How much of a 
>>>>> future would you guys think WO really has?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kind Regards,
>>>>> Jürgen
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> A (sad) success story:
>>>> 
>>>> I have an existing customer (large world-wide operating corporation) with 
>>>> some very old WO apps which I maintain. They also have a small app based 
>>>> on D2W with the old neutral look. This app has been created by some JEE 
>>>> folks who had no clue about WO. The app primarily generates product 
>>>> related PDF files from text-snippets stored and maintained in the 
>>>> database. Maintenance of the data is done by the D2W application. The JEE 
>>>> folks were not able to properly use WO and had big performance problems 
>>>> with PDF generation. So they build a library where they access the 
>>>> database with raw JDBC calls (!!) and have an instance of the app running 
>>>> on a dedicated PC somewhere in a corner so to not block the interactive 
>>>> parts. I have since taken over this application and first of all thrown 
>>>> out everything JDBC related. Redesigned the database structure (they had 
>>>> most of the logic in the data instead of in the databse structure), 
>>>> implemented proper management of the product related spec sheets, and re-
>>>> 
>>>> Unfortunately corporate IT wants to take over the project and kill it (it 
>>>> doesn't fit in with their strategy), customer is furious but the decisions 
>>>> are made elsewhere. We'll see.
>>>> 
>>>> Another success story:
>>>> 
>>>> I am a part time teacher and have tried to cover the module "object 
>>>> oriented development of multiuser database applications" using Wonder. 
>>>> Fortunately the school has given me quite some slack. One of my students 
>>>> from last year (I am currently teaching this module the 3rd time) has 
>>>> introduced Wonder to his employer and could setup a new project! As far as 
>>>> I know both my former student and his boss are happy. YEAH!
>>>> 
>>>> It's difficult finding WO work. Wherever Java is wanted 
>>>> JEE/Hibernate/Spring/JSF/younameit is asked for, or then its dot-net. No 
>>>> way to do anything with WO. I was able to be introduced privately to an 
>>>> older rather rich person who has a lot of his money stuffed away in real 
>>>> estate. For him I could develop a finance tracking application for his 
>>>> investments so that his daughter will be able to maintain the finances 
>>>> once he is gone (which I hope will not be so soon....). That's a modern 
>>>> look ERD2W application hosted by my company. Customer is happy so far and 
>>>> plans for more.
>>>> 
>>>> But I agree, it is very difficult finding WO work. It's not the tools, 
>>>> it's not WO, it's probably not even the closed-source thing, it's just the 
>>>> buzzwords that are completely missing. Nobody in the Java world is even 
>>>> considering something other than JEE and friends because "that's the 
>>>> standard".
>>>> 
>>>> Sad but true.
>>>> 
>>>> ---markus---
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Markus Ruggiero
>>>> [email protected]
>>>> Check out the new book about Project Wonder and WebObjects on 
>>>> http://learningthewonders.com/
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list      ([email protected])
>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/james%40jimijon.com
>>> 
>>> This email sent to [email protected]
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>> Webobjects-dev mailing list      ([email protected])
>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jtayler%40oeinc.com
>> 
>> This email sent to [email protected]
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Webobjects-dev mailing list      ([email protected])
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/joelb%40paperfree.net
> 
> This email sent to [email protected]

 _______________________________________________
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list      ([email protected])
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

This email sent to [email protected]

Reply via email to