I muddle my way through both Zope and Webware almost daily. I'm neither a novice nor an expert with either.
With mod_webkit, you get to take advantage of Apache's built-in functionality. If mod_ssl is installed/configured, then secure stuff dynamically generated through webkit is a given. Trying to get Zope and SSL to play nicely is a far cry from easy. Plus, someone's going to have to admin the Apache server anyway (incl. vhosting), so why not keep things simple?
Webware is knowing Python and some HTML, even CSS if you like. You don't have to learn yet another markup language or worry about crazy or non-intuitive syntax (e.g. dtml-call "dict.update({'a': 'b'}). You'll write fewer lines of code using Webware since you don't have to worry about closing DTML tags, which can also cause some headaches if you're deeply nesting things.
Also, whether you shove data into a database or use pickles in the filesystem (not recommended for concurrency reasons), that information is available system-wide. MiddleKit looks promising and works, though I haven't gotten it to work 100% with MySQL yet (missing a req'd module, too much other stuff to do). Getting stuff out of the ZODB, as far as I know, isn't easy or intuitive.
In Zope, I find myself writing a lot of External Methods to do the 'heavy lifting', and call them from within the DTML. In WebKit, the 'heavy lifting' is just part of the Python, not a requisite separate entity.
Wherever I'm not *required* to use Zope, I don't even think about it... I go straight to Webware/WebKit.
On Wednesday, June 11, 2003, at 02:25 PM, Chris Bruce wrote:
I truly believe that Python is probably the best web development language
around. I have actually been paid to develop with Java, ASP, PHP, and Perl
and none of them are the silver bullet, like python appears to be. But, I
am now trying to find a great framework to use on all future apps done in
Python.
I am getting ready to build a large webbased application. I am set on
python (still wondering how to make installation easy) and am deciding
between Zope and Webware. I have developed many Zope applications, but new
to Webware. I am well aware that they are very different and they can't
truly be compared. But many things I have read about Webware always mention
"Non of the Headaches of Zope" or something similar. What is meant by this?
Can you guys offer some objective information for/against Zope/Webware in
general. My application is basically "a website in a box" designed for the
needs of a specific industry..
I am not looking to start a debate or anything, just trying to get some fresh points of view. Some of the reasons why I am looking at Webware: MiddleKit mod_webkit I have had weird ZODB issues in the past. Maximum use of Python
Features about Zope I like: Webbased access to development and whole system Built in Security (no coding) Super fast to develop and deploy apps Virtual Host Support
Thanks,
Chris
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