Just a point of information re using the IBM bisync comm protocols of 2770,
3770 and 3780 - years ago in the mid-1980's I learned that when using these
protocols you should set transparency such that any control characters found
in the data stream, (such as a CR (Hex0d) for example) are not recognized as
such by the comm protocol. . . . Can't remember if it's transparency on or
off and I no longer have the IBM resource manual on these protocols.

Additionally, the data transfer blocksize should be set appropriately and
agreed to between the two communicating systems. Lastly, there are all kinds
of comm protocol emulators and many of them don't always emulate these IBM
bisync protocols exactly the same way....

Rachel Foerster

-----Original Message-----
From: Kepa Zubeldia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 8:02 AM
To: WEDI SNIP Transactions Workgroup List
Subject: Re: Valid file formats


Mary,

It was Dave Feinberg that posted a very good explanation about this a couple

of months ago.  See below.

In general the translators will produce a single byte segment terminator,
but 
then the communications channel (e.g. 3780 bisync) may convert the segments 
into "records" thus producing an additional CR-LF after each record.  Or 
perhaps the way the segments are stored in the file system cause this 
conversion into separate lines if it is stored as a "text" file in certain 
file systems.  In fact I have seen datasets stored with a fixed line length 
of 320 bytes, with one segment per line, padded with spaces all the way up
to 
320 bytes.  Talk about non-standard!

As Dave explained, HIPAA does not set a standard for telecommunications or
for 
storage of the data on disk.  The data stream must be an X12 data stream
with 
one byte as the segment terminator, but if your own communications or data 
storage system forces the addition of padding or record separators, that is 
your own problem.  HIPAA does not force you to store these files as a byte 
stream in your own system.

Keeping in mind that X12 is a data interchange standard independent of the 
telecommunications infrastructure, you should be able to produce the 
syntactically correct standard, feed it to the communications mechanism 
appropriate to each trading partner, and it should work.  If the 
communications mechanism requires the data to be separated into "records" or

"text lines", that is a telecom problem, not a HIPAA problem.

Dave compared this to the 7 layers of OSI.  The HIPAA requirements are for
the 
application layer (Level 7) to be in X12 format or NCPDP format, with only 
one byte as the segment terminator.  Layers below the application may add 
additional encapsulation requirements, including CR-LF, but those are
outside 
of the scope of HIPAA.

However, having said that, if the communication layer does not require you
to 
do this sort of padding or encapsulation into "lines" or "records" then, 
don't do it.  And, it would be inappropriate for a trading partner to
require 
you to send the data encapsulated in an artificial manner over a 
communications channel that does not require such encapsulation.  They
should 
accept the X12 data without changes to the syntax.  But, if their 
communications infrastructure only supports 3780 bisync in text mode, then 
you will have to break up the data segments into "records".

--------------------------------------
A message Mon, 30 Dec 2002 17:29:20 -0800 from  "David A. Feinberg, C.D.P." 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  (Rensis Corporation) said:

Dave and Zena,

Using the International Standards Organization's Open Systems Interconnect 
(ISO/OSI) model for reference, X12N's HIPAA-adopted Implementation Guides 
(IG's) generally specify only particulars for level 7 [Application] and
level 
6 [Presentation].  Very little is noted in the IG's regarding levels 5 
[Session], 4 [Transport], and below.

As long as the payors' or clearinghouses' blocking requirements are only for

ISO/OSI levels 5, 4, and perhaps below, it is not generally covered by the 
IG's, and, as far as HIPAA is concerned, could be consequently subject to 
negotiation and documentation via trading partner agreements or companion 
guides.  My guess from your messages is that this may be what you're writing

about.  If this is the case, you may wish to discuss the blocking 
requirements further with your translator suppliers.

If my guess is in error, please let us all know.

                    Dave Feinberg
                    Rensis Corporation  [A Consulting Company]
                    206-617-1717
                    [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----------------------------------------

I hope this clarifies it some.

Kepa Zubeldia
Claredi




On Wednesday 12 March 2003 08:39 pm, Mary Burkinshaw wrote:
> Kepa,
> 
> I apologize, I miss-read Lisa's post.  I was thinking of cr-lf as the 
> segment separator itself.
> 
> I have seen many X12 documents sent "unwrapped" with the "~(cr-lf)", 
> but generally smaller 'test' files, where they were intentionally 
> unwrapped for readability.  I never really thought too much of it with 
> concentrating on data issues, that sort of thing seemed relatively 
> minor.  What happens often is they stream or block the data when they 
> test the transmission and/or go into production.
> 
> I do not know of many translators that can 'create' a two-character
segment
> separator.   That kind of "unwrapping" is often done outside of the
> translator - or perhaps with a home grown mapper.
> 
> Question: Would the file then be considered "non HIPAA compliant" with 
> a 2 character segment terminator?  If it violates X12, should it in 
> reality be rejected?  Just curious.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mary Burkinshaw
> 
> Axiom Systems, Inc.
> The Managed Care Technical Experts
> Germantown, MD.
> www.axiom-systems.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kepa Zubeldia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 8:00 PM
> To: WEDI SNIP Transactions Workgroup List
> Subject: Re: Valid file formats
> 
> 
> Lisa,
> 
> The X12 syntax specifies that the segment terminator is ONE single 
> byte.  In your case, it would be the tilde.  To follow the segment 
> terminator with a Carriage Return, New Line, or both (CR-LF) is not 
> correct according to the X12 syntax.  For chapter and verse, look at 
> X12.6 or even the somewhat simplified description in the IGs at 
> Appendix A, section A.1.2.7 where it says the delimiter is ONE byte.  
> Or the note #1 for the ISA segment (Page B.3 of the IGs). The 
> definitive document on X12 syntax issues is X12.6.
> 
> Having said that... most translators will accept a Return or New Line 
> or both after the segment terminator without complaining too much, 
> even though it is technically in violation of the X12 syntax.
> 
> The X12 syntax calls for a "byte stream" but the tradition has been to 
> send a byte stream whenever possible and accept a line-oriented 
> transaction set as an alternative mechanism when receiving files.
> 
> I hope this helps.
> 
> Kepa Zubeldia
> Claredi
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday 12 March 2003 11:21 am, Eney, Lisa wrote:
> > Can an 837P (or any other transaction) file which is formatted so 
> > that segment identifiers are aligned to the left (with tildes 
> > essentially functioning as hard returns) be considered a HIPAA 
> > compliant format?
> >
> > For example:
> >
> > ST*837*0001~
> > BHT*0019*00*0001*20020824*0000*CH~
> > REF*87*004010X098D~
> >
> > I do not think that it would be, but now that I find myself in a 
> > position
> to
> > defend that idea, I am unable to find the chapter and verse in the 
> > IG to support it. Any help in this matter would be greatly 
> > appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Lisa
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Lisa Eney
> > Project Manager
> > HIPAA Claims Transaction Code Sets
> > ADMS - Baltimore
> > 410.209.5216
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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you wish to receive an official opinion, post your question to the WEDI SNIP Issues 
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They also are not intended to be used as a forum for personal disagreements or 
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