good work--something to be said for that.
--- In [email protected], "James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I still think you're trying to see things in black and white, when > reality is more complex than that. But if I've convinced one person > not to sleep on the street before the next Alice Cooper show, then my > work is done here. > > > > --- In [email protected], "Hannah Robinson" > <hjrobinson@> wrote: > > > > I'm not arguing against the principle of "Don't be Stupid". And I'm > > definitely not arguing from a utopian standpoint. I don't think I > can > > change public opinion by myself. And I don't think we can ever > eradicate > > violence in our society. But there can be real-world consequences > to people > > sharing your attitude. One of those looks a lot like the 84% of > rapes that > > go unreported to the police. > > > > If I've convinced anybody to shift the focus that little bit, then > that one > > less person contributing to an appalling CW. One that says that if > only > > you're careful enough, nothing bad will happen to you, and > conversely, if > > something bads happens, it must be in some way your fault. > > > > Anyway, to repeat, everybody remember : "Don't Be Stupid" > and "Don't Blame > > the Victim" > > > > Glory, glory, Harry Lewis. Amen. > > > > On 8/18/06, James <ttlsccr@> wrote: > > > > > > I admire your utopian outlook, but I've just had too much shit > happen > > > to me to roll like that. Walking down the street at 2 am, wearing > a > > > walkman (this is something that existed pre-iPod) and getting > slammed > > > in the back of the head and having said walkman stolen. No, I was > > > not at fault at all. I don't think I was "asking" for it. But you > > > know what, I read the papers, I know what happens, probably > pretty fn > > > stupid to deprive myself of a major component of my awareness > given > > > that particular setting. > > > > > > Before the internet, we used to camp out on the street to get in > line > > > for concert tickets. Well my friend was a huge Alice Cooper fan > and > > > convinced me this thing would sell out in 10 minutes. So we load > up > > > the cooler, the boombox, go down to W. Bell downtown (this was a > > > department store that existed before Wal-Mart) and get the party > > > started. Of course, nobody else showed up, we got drunk, fell > > > asleep, and everything got stolen. Pretty dumb to fall asleep on a > > > downtown street surrounded by expensive shit and booze. > > > > > > Violent crime or opportunistic, my decisions played a part in the > > > events that followed. I guess it's just a philosophical > difference. > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected]<weingartenchatters% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "Hannah Robinson" > > > <hjrobinson@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Thank you for the lovely compliment, Cap'n. Rest assured, the > > > feeling's mutual. > > > > > > > > Alas, I am unconvinced by your argument. You've described each > of > > > > those situations as an instance of a 'crime of opportunity'. > Jean > > > > Valjean/Leona Helmsley/Haley Joel Osment (speaking of which, > what is > > > > this? the Kevin Bacon rap sheet? Mel to M. Night to Haley Joel?) > > > sees > > > > an opening, measures the risk, goes for it despite its being > both > > > > illegal and wrong. > > > > > > > > The problem with comparing violent crime to property crime or > > > criminal > > > > negligence (not a lawyer yet, so I don't really know best how to > > > > characterize a DUI) is that the 'opportunity' presented is less > > > > 'how-can-I-get-away-with-behaving-irresponsibly-but-to-my-own- > > > benefit' > > > > and more 'how-can-I-hurt-someone'. > > > > > > > > Basically, the victim is largely tangential to the criminal in > your > > > > examples. It's not personal. They are tempted, and they suffer > the > > > > weakness of mind to indulge. In violent crime, the victim is the > > > > whole focus of the crime. It requires not weakness of mind, but > a > > > > broken one. What is this irresistible temptation? The victim's > > > > existence? > > > > > > > > To my mind, accidentally leaving your door unlocked isn't the > same > > > as > > > > going to bar. And I hope we can all agree, that neither one is > > > > 'asking for it.' > > > > > > > > All I'm really trying to achieve is getting people to step back > from > > > > the judging the victim thing. Even if you are not, as I said > > > before, > > > > all about making yourself feel more secure, it's still > completely > > > > unhelpful in dealing with the root cause of crime (which is NOT > > > > keeping your kids on a leash/wearing a burqa/never leaving the > hosue > > > > after sundown). As unintentional as it may be, Blame the Victim > is > > > to > > > > a degree letting the attacker off the hook. I ask that everybody > > > keep > > > > that in mind. > > > > > > > > Sermon over. Praise Jeebus. > > > > > > > > (P.S. To Denise, I threw in the defrocked so I wouldn't get > anyone > > > > telling me that not ALL priests are like that. Sigh, sometimes a > > > gal > > > > can't win.) > > > > > > > > > > > > James said: > > > > > > > > Hannah, you always make a convincing argument, and not only > that, > > > > you're funny when you want to be, too, which is why I'm glad you > > > > contribute to this group. But let Capt. Analogy take another > stab > > > > at this. > > > > > > > > Say you're shopping and leave your credit card somewhere, and an > > > > unscrupulous fellow shopper picks it up and runs it up with a > bunch > > > > of crap purchases. Say he fills up his 2005 Aspen green Camry > and > > > > buys tickets to Bob Dylan on Saturday, for instance. Yes, this > > > > person is as guilty as if he had picked it directly from your > > > > pocket. But to some degree, you did fuck up. We live in a world > in > > > > which you need to protect yourself, your loved ones who can't > > > > protect themselves, and your valuables. These are unfortunate > and > > > > undeniable truths. If you don't do this, or worse, do the exact > > > > opposite, you have to bear a certain degree of responsibility. > > > > Whether it is naivete' or carelessness, society is unlikely to > make > > > > concessions for you. The person who picked up your card saw an > > > > opportunity, and may not have had the intent to steal a card > that > > > > day. But still, you're screwed. > > > > > > > > Now to Gene's remark about drunk driving vs. tax evasion. Okay, > now > > > > I'm drunk at a bar. I have my car and I have my keys. I have the > > > > opportunity to sleep in my own bed, to be comforted by my own > cats, > > > > to apply my own icepacks, steaks, cucumber slices, and do > whatever I > > > > need to do in my own bathroom. There is no intent to harm > anyone. > > > > The crime lies between the poor judgement, and the opportunity > to > > > > drive to where I want to be. Tax evasion is a crime of intent. > The > > > > repercussions about sucking up resources and depriving money > that > > > > might have gone into social programs, blah blah won't get into > that, > > > > particularly under this administration. > > > > > > > > Say you're walking by a parked convertible with the top down, > and > > > > there's a $100 bill on the front seat. Most of us will think, > this > > > > is a set up, ain't touching that thing. But we're special. What > > > > percentage of society do you think will grab that thing, > compared to > > > > breaking into a locked car with a bill on the seat? A far > greater > > > > percentage. You're basically an idiot for leaving a $100 in an > open > > > > car. Only a real douchebag will break someone's window for a > lousy > > > > $100. I think Gene thinks a crime of intent is worse than a > crime > > > > of opportunity. > > > > > > > > So what I'm getting at is yes, your kids should not be walking > home > > > > alone, especially if you have dressed them up as little freakin' > > > > whores. > > > > > > > > This ain't the garden of eden, there ain't no angels above. > Things > > > > ain't what they used to be, and this ain't the summer of love. - > > > > Blue Oyster Cult > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/weingartenchatters/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
