Those subscribed to the commit message mailing list will have already
seen that I've added a level-3 flyer - moreover, I have added marksman
to the flyer line.
This would normally overpower the faction, but this is part of a
larger change at work.
Firstly I'd say it would be prudent that if any change is committed it
should be discussed beforehand... not presented as fait accompli. These
need to be discussed and argued over even before they are tested. This
is especially true of changes that are as major as what you are
suggesting. Also it would be nice if they were all revealed at once,
rather than piecemeal. I'm not against a completely new balancing per
say, however its fairly difficult to discern the effects of such a
major change in a faction if its revealed one by one.
Also as I think that at this point there should be a less emphasis on
"rebuilding the entire race" when really the drakes are fairly good as
is, and don't need massive change. This is especially true given that
people want to see a v 1.0 being put out in the near future, we
shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water by making new major
changes. Instead the focus should be on little changes that would
enhance the already good base we have right now. Balancing is an
insanely difficult task, and making one change is tough enough to see
the effects, say nothing of 5 different changes. I think more focus
should be placed on the problems at hand rather than making whole new
headaches.
Sometime within the next week, I am going to completely remake the
saurian tribalist line - graphics and all. A number of people, Sanna
especially, have complained about factions being or becoming too
similar, a sentiment which I agree with. The tribalist is having his
magic attack replaced with a drain attack (along with the rest of his
line). The level-2 branch is also being collapsed, since it had
little utility. Hitpoints are being increased, slightly. The unit's
stats were originally created NOT under the aegis of "every faction
needs a unit with a magic attack," but rather under the more
destructive "every faction needs a 'mage'." This is quite nearly the
antithesis of faction differentiation.
Does every faction need a lvl3? Isn't that a lack of differentiation
right there (and unit bloat at the same time?)
Clearly however I and most other MP players have a serious problem with
your proposed change of tribalist magic attack to drain. In multiplayer
games the the tribalist is a vital unit for dislodging entrenched high
defence units like the assassin, elvish archers in the forest and
knalgans on mountains. removing it would cripple the Drakes ability to
conduct effective offensive operations.
Besides all of this, it has never seemed right to me that in a faction
with _fire_breathing_dragons, a primary ranged offensive unit was
something else. If nothing else, the tribalist should really be
de-emphasized as a combat unit, and formed into what it was originally
intended to be - a support unit. Almost all players right now hire
the tribalist for his attack capability, not his healing.
So? Just because it was intended to be something and it fit another
role even better doesn't mean it should be changed, unless it was
unbalancing. Right now it occupies a unique role within the faction,
and your proposed changes to make up for it (as I'll discuss later) is
a poor substitute.
By having a ranged drain attack, several things are accomplished:
a] It is a unique configuration which no other faction has.
+faction_differentiation
The saurian is a unique unit, far more weak than its counterpart "mage
units" but with added healing trait. Really I use it more against other
secondary units like archers or entrenched knalgans, not the typical
targets that other magic units are used for. I think most people would
agree as it stands its "differentiated enough" and strikes a good
balance between gameplay and flavour.
.
b] It removes the cliché "mage" unit from the saurians.
+faction_differentiation
Cliche? Its game based in a Fantasy setting. I'd expect some magic
being around. Moreover you use the argument that
c] It fits better with the "voodoo/witch doctor/serpentine/jungle"
flavor of the unit's magic style +flavor
I can agree with this point, but I think its a minor quibble, and the
balancing concerns outweigh it in this case.
d] It makes the unit less volatile - harder to kill with, harder to
get killed +gameplay
As I stated before, drain isn't going to cut it. I've spoken about this
before in other areas, the cold magic attack for the tribalist is one
of the "key skills" that certain factions rely upon (like assassin's
poison and the Ulf's berzerk). Removing it just unbalances the faction
and causes far more problems.
e] It makes the unit MUCH less common on the battlefield - fitting
with the idea of magic being rare and powerful. +flavor
You're repeating yourself, B and E are essentially the same. I count
three lvl-1 units that have magic across four factions... thats not
that much, especially given that it is a "fantasy based setting."
A side benefit of this is that the sky drake, which is currently of
questionable use when compared with saurian skirmishers, will become a
much more generally useful unit. Drake players will have a choice of
attacking with a unit that can help to ensure a hit, or a unit that
can do a lot of damage. Additionally, by having marksman, the drake
flyer will still be vulnerable to retaliation during the opponents
turn - marksman activates only on the offense, not during retaliation.
Ummm sky drake, questionable use? I think that its quite the opposite
as being one of the most effective scouts in the game. this is
especially true when Saurian skirmisher gets its long needed movement
roll back. In its current 7 movement form its completely unbalanced as
has been pointed out over and over again. Really its the reason why so
few people are using drakes these days on multiplayer. Right now people
are being asked not to play as drakes because of the saurian rush
strategy. So its not going to be able to be able to scout like it used
to. Moreover at this present time its cheaper than other scout units so
I think it doesn't need a change. Secondly what is the rational of
having marksmanship? Conceptually it doesn't make sense, and even less
so on a gameplay basis. If you think this will make up for removing
magical from the tribalist's attack, it won't. firstly, against elvish
archers in a forest or a thunderer on a mountain the glider with 20%
less defence against pierce and poorer defence will not be effective at
all.
This brings me to a third point. At this point the drakes already are a
expensive race, and individuals have been griping about this. your
changes will likely result in the flyer being upped in price... which
is exactly not what is needed for an already expensive race.
I think that with the exception of some of the obvious problems I've
already pointed out that these changes should not be applied. It makes
little sense to make such major changes, ones which will have a
detrimental effect on the already problematic balance in wesnoth.
