+1 Nitesh +1 Aruna Well said. I see a lot of nice material for our website coming out in this email!
On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 9:53 PM, Nitesh A Jain <[email protected]>wrote: > Well put Aruna. > I would like to add that the FOSS idealogy is to be completely Open (we > must presnt our strenghts, and reveal our weakness too and not hide it. ) > We are only here to present our case for FOSS and let the user decide what > he/she wants. It is finally the users choice. > If we try to create systems/idealogy that restricts the user's freedom > then we are contradicting ourselves.Further if we do this then what is the > difference between us and the others > > Regards > Nitesh > On 14 Jun 2013 21:40, "Aruna S" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 8:06 PM, A. Mani <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Satabdi Das <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> A. The obvious problem is if we say free s/w runs in M$ os, then >>> >> newbie may never move to GNU/Linux. >>> >> There are examples of people never bothering to understand despite >>> >> sitting in the free s/w movement. >>> >> >>> > True. There is a possibility that they might never move to FOSS. But I >>> fail >>> > to see how our forcing them to submit their posters made in FOSS will >>> make >>> > them switch to FOSS. If someone is using an OS, it takes time and >>> support >>> > from others to migrate to another OS. >>> > >>> > I am not sure if using derogatory signs for MS will win us people. >>> Through >>> > the poster competition we are trying to get people warm to FOSS >>> alternatives >>> > even if they are run on MS Windows. If they like the FOSS alternative, >>> then >>> > we can try to get those people convert to using a FOSS OS. Making the >>> > criteria of FOSS tools run on open source OS will only get people >>> already >>> > using open source OS. I am not sure if people will switch to a new OS >>> just >>> > for the sake of participating in a poster competition. >>> > >>> >>> We teach this way: concept formation, concept application and concept >>> maturation. >>> You are not understanding the nature of concept formation. >>> The first step is awareness. >>> The concept exists. >>> The concept can be useful. >>> .... it goes on. >>> >>> There is a huge difference between a person who says "I have never >>> heard of GIMP" and >>> one who says "I have used GIMP". The latter type of person is more >>> likely to move to a GNU/Linux distro. >>> >> >> I think you are forgetting that a lot of women come in the former >> category and I do not want to exclude them from this initiative; if >> anything I'm more concerned about this group. Would your stance here change >> if women with the latter opinion were using GIMP on MS-Windows? The first >> step is to be aware of ANYTHING related to FOSS, it could be as simple as a >> FOSS game like GNOME Mines instead of Minesweeper. We could show people the >> code behind minesweeper and maybe show them how tweaking it changes the >> game and help them see that there are a lot of cool experiments that they >> can carry out on their own if they give FOSS a chance( even if their OS is >> proprietary). I think it is more important to emphasise on FOSS more than >> emphasising on FOSS OSs, not that they are mutually exclusive, but getting >> people to even start using a FOSS application would be a good start. >> >> >>> I have converted a number of M$ OS users to Ubuntu/ Fedora by >>> stressing mainly on TeXLive. A single tool can motivate migration of >>> individual users too. >>> >> >> Exactly! You focussed on promoting TeXLive, a FOSS application rather >> than stressing on why MS-Windows is M$-Windows. >> >> >>> Saying nothing about 'M$' makes sense for corporates who want to be >>> bought by them. Not for others. >>> >>> >> I completely agree. I'm just saying that let's not bring this into >> learning about FOSS. At least, not *yet*. The reason why I want people >> to learn FOSS is because there are many who are not aware that they can >> contribute to the development process of something beautiful, and also >> because making that first contributing step is very very easy. If all FOSS >> creators thought that users of MS-Windows should be excluded from the FOSS >> community, they wouldn't enable these applications(Including git) to run on >> Windows. I think it is very very important to be democratic and give people >> the choice to determine what they want to do in the end. That is what FOSS >> is to me, at the end of the day. We are not running an anti-Windows >> campaign, at least not yet. I will go so far as to say that I do not care >> about the OS that women are using as long as they are even mildly curious >> about FOSS. >> >> >>> > >>> >> B. M$ can say that the free s/w runs in their OS and so their OS gets >>> >> weight in an adoption scenario. This is very dangerous. >>> >> We should take care to denigrate the performance, usability, etc of >>> >> s/w in M$ os in this scenario and also make it it a point to mention >>> >> it to newbies. >>> >> >>> > I support what Aruna has said and I would strongly suggest that we >>> maintain >>> > a respectful and friendly attitude it in our online communication. >>> > >>> > And even though we try out "confrontational and provocative" mode of >>> > engagement, simply ranting against MS won't do us any good. >>> >>> You are missing the point. >>> This is not about ranting. This is about responsible teaching. >>> 'respectful' != 'sweeping all the issues under carpet' as you are >>> trying above (It is not very different from lying). >>> >>> I am saying that all events for newbies should have clear links to >>> FOSS resources including FOSS philosophy. >>> >>> If you won't even give a clue then how on earth will your newbie divine >>> things? >>> >> >> I think better clues would be wikis and links(Like you have mentioned) on >> how to download source code, how to write good documentation if you're >> unsure of coding, how to translate if you're fluent in some regional >> language, how to spread the FOSS philosophy(Which is not the same as >> running an anti-Microsoft campaign) etc. >> >> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 8:09 PM, A. Mani <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 6:33 PM, Satabdi Das <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> > If you feel we are trying to "sweep all the problems under the carpet", >>> > please point out where we are doing it. Otherwise simply throwing >>> terms like >>> > "right-wing media strategy" or "corporate speak" doesn't help. >>> > >>> >>> Nobody can be independent of the socio-political mileu. >>> >>> An example is in your other reply in this thread >>> I will answer it there. >>> >>> >>> >>> > I liked the positive (I know I am being repetitive on this) atmosphere >>> > provided to the Gnome OPW interns during my internship and you can see >>> it in >>> >>> The Gnome OPW context is very different. They do not deal with newbies >>> and are more concerned with very specific development projects. Our >>> context is too different. We are not handling motivated people (only) >>> who can actually write code. >>> >> >> The GNOME OPW took me under its wing when I was a FOSS newbie *infant*. I >> had no awareness whatsoever about FOSS except an Ubuntu OS running on my >> computer on a partition with MS-Windows(Since my parents use MS Windows. >> They love Ubuntu because it integrates all the device drivers much better >> than MS-Windows and therefore makes our Webcam look much better but they >> also dislike Ubuntu because an application, MajicJack, that they use to >> talk to my sister did not have a Linux driver the last time we checked. Do >> I blame them? Not at all.) and I don't think the OS made *any* difference. >> I'm still a coding novice because I contribute to documentation. I >> personally know students who run git on Windows and contribute to >> documentation. Maybe this is dangerous and being soft on Microsoft, but is >> FOSS benefiting? Most definitely. These students did change over to Fedora, >> but did so on their own. >> >> For me, getting women to talk to me about FOSS and providing them with >> community support is a better beginning than ensuring that they see how >> Microsoft is M<dollars>-Windows. Let's focus on women for now and leave the >> politics and the activism for later though I completely agree with you on >> the importance of the same and would love to be part of anything we decide >> about this when the timing is right. :) >> >> Warm regards, >> Aruna >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> WFS-India mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> Message archives: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> >> Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe, please login to your account at >> http://www.wfs-india.org/ and unsubscribe to the WFS-India list from >> your account settings. >> >> -- WFS-India - http://www.wfs-india.org >> >> > _______________________________________________ > > WFS-India mailing list > [email protected] > > Message archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > > Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe, please login to your account at > http://www.wfs-india.org/ and unsubscribe to the WFS-India list from your > account settings. > > -- WFS-India - http://www.wfs-india.org > > -- http://about.me/debamitro *don't polish your ignorance, it will shine*<http://www.ishafoundation.org/>
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