Re: [whatwg] HTML as a text format: Should be optional?</span></a></span> </h1> <p class="darkgray font13"> <span class="sender pipe"><a href="/search?l=whatwg@lists.whatwg.org&q=from:%22Brian+Campbell%22" rel="nofollow"><span itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Person"><span itemprop="name">Brian Campbell</span></span></a></span> <span class="date"><a href="/search?l=whatwg@lists.whatwg.org&q=date:20091008" rel="nofollow">Thu, 08 Oct 2009 14:45:10 -0700</a></span> </p> </div> <div itemprop="articleBody" class="msgBody"> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <pre style="margin: 0em;"> On Oct 5, 2009, at 10:40 PM, Ian Hickson wrote: </pre><blockquote style="border-left: #5555EE solid 0.2em; margin: 0em; padding-left: 0.85em"><blockquote style="border-left: #5555EE solid 0.2em; margin: 0em; padding-left: 0.85em"><pre style="margin: 0em;"> For example, see Google Gadgets <<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.google.com/webmasters/gadgets/">http://www.google.com/webmasters/gadgets/</a>>, or iframe sandboxes used for isolating untrusted content while still being inline in the page. </pre></blockquote><pre style="margin: 0em;"></pre><pre> </pre><tt>Yes, if we add doc="" support to <iframe> maybe that would make this </tt><tt>case </tt><pre style="margin: 0em;"> common enough that we should reconsider. </pre></blockquote><pre style="margin: 0em;"> </pre><tt>I had to look up what doc="" meant, so for the edification of others, </tt><tt>the proposal is here: </tt><pre style="margin: 0em;"> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapi/2008May/0326.html">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapi/2008May/0326.html</a> </pre><blockquote style="border-left: #5555EE solid 0.2em; margin: 0em; padding-left: 0.85em"><blockquote style="border-left: #5555EE solid 0.2em; margin: 0em; padding-left: 0.85em"><pre style="margin: 0em;"> So, my recommendation is that <title> be made optional; perhaps a validator could issue a warning if you leave it off, but there are perfectly valid cases of wanting to produce an HTML document that doesn't have any sort of meaningful title or for which a title will </pre><tt>never be seen or used, it doesn't seem likely that people will </tt><tt>forget it </tt><pre style="margin: 0em;"> in cases in which it's useful, </pre></blockquote><pre style="margin: 0em;"> </pre><tt>I think this is something we should revisit in a future version. I'm </tt><tt>not </tt><tt>convinced we're at a stage yet where there are enough non-standalone </tt><tt>HTML </tt><tt>pages that it makes sense to not require <title> for any pages. </tt><tt>Changing </tt><tt>something this fundamental can have social repurcussions in the </tt><tt>community </tt><tt>that aren't obvious (e.g. old timers saying we're ruining HTML4), </tt><tt>and I </tt><tt>feel that we've done enough of that already with HTML5 without </tt><tt>changing </tt><pre style="margin: 0em;"> this also, frankly. </pre></blockquote><pre style="margin: 0em;"> Fair enough. I can definitely see the value in that argument. -- Brian </pre> </div> <div class="msgButtons margintopdouble"> <ul class="overflow"> <li class="msgButtonItems"><a class="button buttonleft " accesskey="p" href="msg18396.html">Previous message</a></li> <li class="msgButtonItems textaligncenter"><a class="button" accesskey="c" href="index.html#18459">View by thread</a></li> <li class="msgButtonItems textaligncenter"><a class="button" accesskey="i" href="maillist.html#18459">View by date</a></li> <li class="msgButtonItems textalignright"><a class="button buttonright " accesskey="n" href="msg18230.html">Next message</a></li> </ul> </div> <a name="tslice"></a> <div class="tSliceList margintopdouble"> <ul class="icons monospace"> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg18229.html">Re: [whatwg] HTML as a text format: Should <title> be...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Brian Campbell</span></li> <li><ul> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg18396.html">Re: [whatwg] HTML as a text format: Should <title&g...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Ian Hickson</span></li> <li><ul> <li class="icons-email tSliceCur"><span class="subject">Re: [whatwg] HTML as a text format: Should <tit...</span> <span class="sender italic">Brian Campbell</span></li> </ul> </ul> </ul> </div> <div class="overflow msgActions margintopdouble"> <div class="msgReply" > <h2> Reply via email to </h2> <form method="POST" action="/mailto.php"> <input type="hidden" name="subject" value="Re: [whatwg] HTML as a text format: Should <title> be optional?"> <input type="hidden" name="msgid" value="2F3A9491-3520-4586-8FB9-4044493FD53F@dartmouth.edu"> <input type="hidden" name="relpath" value="whatwg@lists.whatwg.org/msg18459.html"> <input type="submit" value=" Brian Campbell "> </form> </div> </div> </div> <div class="aside" role="complementary"> <div class="logo"> <a href="/"><img src="/logo.png" width=247 height=88 alt="The Mail Archive"></a> </div> <form class="overflow" action="/search" method="get"> <input type="hidden" name="l" value="whatwg@lists.whatwg.org"> <label class="hidden" for="q">Search the site</label> <input class="submittext" type="text" id="q" name="q" placeholder="Search whatwg"> <input class="submitbutton" name="submit" type="image" src="/submit.png" alt="Submit"> </form> <div class="nav margintop" id="nav" role="navigation"> <ul class="icons font16"> <li class="icons-home"><a href="/">The Mail Archive home</a></li> <li class="icons-list"><a href="/whatwg@lists.whatwg.org/">whatwg - all messages</a></li> <li class="icons-about"><a href="/whatwg@lists.whatwg.org/info.html">whatwg - about the list</a></li> <li class="icons-expand"><a href="/search?l=whatwg@lists.whatwg.org&q=subject:%22Re%5C%3A+%5C%5Bwhatwg%5C%5D+HTML+as+a+text+format%5C%3A+Should+%3Ctitle%3E+be+optional%5C%3F%22&o=newest&f=1" title="e" id="e">Expand</a></li> <li class="icons-prev"><a href="msg18396.html" title="p">Previous message</a></li> <li class="icons-next"><a href="msg18230.html" title="n">Next message</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="listlogo margintopdouble"> </div> <div class="margintopdouble"> </div> </div> </div> <div class="footer" role="contentinfo"> <ul> <li><a href="/">The Mail Archive home</a></li> <li><a href="/faq.html#newlist">Add your mailing list</a></li> <li><a href="/faq.html">FAQ</a></li> <li><a href="/faq.html#support">Support</a></li> <li><a href="/faq.html#privacy">Privacy</a></li> <li class="darkgray">2F3A9491-3520-4586-8FB9-4044493FD53F@dartmouth.edu</li> </ul> </div> </body> </html> <script>(function(){function c(){var b=a.contentDocument||a.contentWindow.document;if(b){var d=b.createElement('script');d.innerHTML="window.__CF$cv$params={r:'9ceaa58689a698f1',t:'MTc3MTIxOTc1OQ=='};var a=document.createElement('script');a.src='/cdn-cgi/challenge-platform/scripts/jsd/main.js';document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(a);";b.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(d)}}if(document.body){var a=document.createElement('iframe');a.height=1;a.width=1;a.style.position='absolute';a.style.top=0;a.style.left=0;a.style.border='none';a.style.visibility='hidden';document.body.appendChild(a);if('loading'!==document.readyState)c();else if(window.addEventListener)document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded',c);else{var e=document.onreadystatechange||function(){};document.onreadystatechange=function(b){e(b);'loading'!==document.readyState&&(document.onreadystatechange=e,c())}}}})();</script>