Am 14.06.2011 18:06 schrieb Tab Atkins Jr.:
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 2:04 AM, Markus Ernst<[email protected]> wrote:
Am 14.06.2011 09:32 schrieb Ian Hickson:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2011, Markus Ernst wrote:
Consider this markup of Andy's use case:
<p>I always like to eat these cheeses:
<il>
<ili>Cheddar</ili>,
<ili>Stilton</ili>, and
<ili>Red Lester</ili>,
</il>
but I enjoy them most with one of these biscuits:
<il>
<ili>wheat crackers</ili>,
<ili>rye crackers</ili>,
<ili>digestives</ili>,
</il>
and some chutney.</p>
<il> stands for "inline list",<ili> for "inline list item" (it's a pity
we can't reuse<li> for BC reasons). Conforming UAs would be required to
ignore any content in an<il> element, except it is in an<ili> element.
Like that, the above example would be perfectly readable in legacy UAs,
but make sense in HTML5-capable UAs.
It would even be easy to stlye the output for legacy UAs supporting
display:list-item, as this example illustrates:
http://www.markusernst.ch/stuff_for_the_world/list-test.html
What problem does this solve?
It solves the first use case Jukka mentioned in his original post:
Am 10.03.2011 09:20 schrieb Jukka K. Korpela:
The<p> element (ever since it became an element) has always allowed
inline (text-level) content only, and no change is planned to this in
HTML5. Under these circumstances, what should we say to people to
need to use paragraphs that contain lists, for example?
So does Hixie's answer of "Tell them to use two<p>s and a<ul>". His
answer has the benefit of not requiring any changes to HTML, and not
introducing a fourth type of list that is only very subtly different
from<ul>.
Am 15.06.2011 09:09 schrieb Jukka K. Korpela:
>
> <div class="p">
> <p>This is text, which may be just list header (introduction to
> the list) or a longer presentation.
> <ul>
> <li>an item</li>
> <li>another item</li>
> </ul>
> <p>Here we may have text that logically continues the discussion
> of the topic.</p>
> </div>
>
> * * *
>
> I know this suggestion is long and raw, but I hope its basic content
> is something we can agree on. And I have no big problem with using
> div markup here, even though it somewhat goes against the spirit of
> modern HTML.
This results in:
<div class="p">
<p>I always like to eat these cheeses:</p>
<ul>
<li>Cheddar</li>,
<li>Stilton</li>, and
<li>Red Lester</li>,
</ul>
<p>but I enjoy them most with one of these biscuits:</p>
<ul>
<li>wheat crackers</li>,
<li>rye crackers</li>,
<li>digestives</li>,
</ul>
<p>and some chutney.</p>
</div>
I don't like this, because it is a hackish workaround for a quite basic
problem. Lots of HTML is actually authored by non-programmers using
online rich text editors - both the editor softwares and their users
will be quite hard to teach about using such constructs. I strongly
assume that the following kind of solution is more likely to occur:
<p style="margin-bottom:0">I always like to eat these cheeses:</p>
<ul style="margin:0">
<li>Cheddar</li>,
<li>Stilton</li>, and
<li>Red Lester</li>,
</ul>
<p style="margin:0">but I enjoy them most with one of these biscuits:</p>
<ul style="margin:0">
<li>wheat crackers</li>,
<li>rye crackers</li>,
<li>digestives</li>,
</ul>
<p style="margin-top:0">and some chutney.</p>
The main issue here is the fact that you can't just apply styling to the
list element, but have to apply it to the surrounding <p>s, too. Inline
lists would make this kind of things definitely easier and better.
Of course I understand the benefit of not requiring any changes to HTML,
but actually the HTML5 process is about making changes to HTML. I don't
have a big problem with using this kind of markup either, but the same
applies for using <div>s instead of <article>s and <section>s.
