De-lurking twice in one day, rare indeed;) I'm very much in favour of the "toolkit with a capable sample application" approach though.
When I've used PHP I've found that the concept of a plug-in for a PHP CMS is very informal and undefined. If you want to create a file upload plug-in you write a file upload page. You tie it into the rest of the CMS almost as an afterthought. This lack of rigour leads to some very ugly plug-ins code wise, but makes it very easy to write a plug-in or change existing functionality. I think that is why there is such a community and so many available (often overlapping) plug-ins. The Java response to this (JSR-107) has been to create large monolithic CMSs which use template engines to hide some of the complexity. In practise, it makes does make basic templating simple while extending functionality or adding new functionality actually becomes more daunting. I think this would ultimately be just as true of a large CMS using Wicket for presentation as any of the other presentation layers in use. I also think it misses the point. Simplify database access with Hibernate. Simplify the presentation by hiding complex code in components. Ditch templating in favour of some loosely coupled Wicket pages using Wickets own HTML separation. I think you'd end up with something that competes very well with PHP in terms of simplicity and ease of modification while retaining access to the benefits of Java. All this is just my opinion, and a simpler sample application like what I envision could easily grow into a larger CMS with time or co-exist with a more ambitious CMS project. Troy On Tue, 2006-08-29 at 17:24 -0400, Hugh Willson wrote: > Hi Erik! > > I understand your CMS component approach, and it makes a lot of sense. > I also, however, do see the benefit of creating a full blown CMS in > Wicket. I've used a lot of different open sources CMS', and I really > have yet to find one created using Java that I like. PHP holds the > crown when it comes to open source CMS' - not because PHP is superior > in any way (although it may be in some areas :-), but because of the > community surrounding PHP based CMS'. The community is incredible! > Third party development for Joomla, Drupal and Typo3 blows my mind! I > like writing code in Java, and focusing on really clean OO models. > Because of this, I want to use a clean, simple and modular CMS that I > can extend easily using Java (and that allows me to take advantage of > the enormous amounts of high quality Java libraries available). This > is where I see Wicket coming into play - it really helps keep things > simple and clean. Oh ya, and it's fun to work with!!! :-) I > definitely can see the advantages and situations where the components > you've mentioned would come in handy, but I can also see certain > situations where a full blown, simple, elegant, and fun to work with > CMS would help make our lives easier. > > Hugh. > > On 8/29/06, Erik Brakkee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > CMS is something that I have been very interested in. I'd love to have > > > such a thing, but have avoided building one myself because, as you say, > > > I do have other projects that I work on. Starting up a CMS by myself > > > would take more time than I could give. But to collaborate on a CMS > > > with others.... That I can do. :-) > > > > > > > > I would also be willing to help. But just to clarify what I meant, I > > don't want to develop a CMS, but develop CMS components for use in > > wicket applications. In other words, what I am looking for are > > components usable in any wicket application with the only dependency > > being wicket-core (and possibly wicket-auth). Given the wide choice of > > CMSs out there, it would not make sense to develop yet another CMS. > > > > Eelco wrote: > > > > >I'd be interested in helping out here and there too. A joint effort > > >would be great. Though we should be careful not to let such a project > > >fall in the 'designed by committee' category. > > > > That is my fear as well, especially if we would focus on standards such > > as JSR-170 too much. In my opinion, the focus should be on a good > > object-oriented design of the components themselves with friendly > > interfaces, and on keeping it simple. > > > > I intend to write a comments component for my application anyway > > (because I need it), so that could serve as a starting point for further > > discussions. Or, slightly rephrased, how do we start? > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > > easier > > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > _______________________________________________ > > Wicket-user mailing list > > Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Wicket-user mailing list > Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 _______________________________________________ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
