--- Comment #23 from Jan Ainali <w...@ainali.com> ---
(In reply to Dan Garry from comment #20)
> (In reply to Jan Ainali from comment #16)
> > Here is another use case one user came up with during a discussion. You
> > search for a term and you want to fix something in all these articles. By
> > being able to sort it by last modified, all the ones you just fixed will go
> > to the end of the list and it is to see what is left to do.
> Implementing search sorting for this use case is implementing a solution to
> a problem that does not exist. In CirrusSearch, the search index is updated
> within seconds of changes to articles, so any articles you've fixed will be
> removed from the search results if you were to rerun the query.
No, you are assuming I am removing what I search for. I could very well search
for one string, because I know articles with this string has something ese that
need to be fixed. So they will still show up, but with a sorting function, I
could easily move them to the end of the results.
> (In reply to Jan Ainali from comment #18)
> > Your assumption here is that there is only one hit that might be interesting
> > for the user. For many editors, lists of articles that are starting points
> > for their editing behavior make perfect sense. Sure, editors are a very
> > small number of users compared to readers. That is why sorting should be a
> > secondary action, after the first results have been shown.
> I make the assumption that being the user expects to be presented with
> results relevant to the query that is typed in. If you are not expecting
> that, then you should not be trying to change the intended function of the
> search engine, you should be using some other tool (like database dumps).
> I'm genuinely sorry if that's harder and more inconvenient for you, because
> I do not like making things inconvenient for people, but that does not
> change my stance about the product that is search.
Hmm, perhaps this should not be in product search? Perhaps this should be a new
special page, Special:SortArticles where you in different ways, perhaps even
through categories or templates or search can sort articles. I would also see
this sorting useful in other places, such as Special:WhatLinksHere (whose sort
order by the way is not clearly conveyed on that special page). Having to go to
catscan for that is, as you say, inconvenient for people, but even worse, might
hinder a new interested user from becoming a 100+edits/month user because they
do not know catscan exists and find it to tedious digging for the articles they
want to improve.
> (In reply to Jan Ainali from comment #16)
> > I am sorry, but you have not stated any reasons at all. In what way will
> > this degrade performance for users? My wish is that the search is presented
> > as it is today, with the option to sort it *after* the first results has
> > been showed. So for users not wanting to sort it, there will be no
> > difference at all.
> I've already outlined that sorting by date will, for the vast majority of
> users, generate meaningless results. Putting it behind a button and
> expecting people not to press that button does not make that okay.
> Just to be clear, you reopening the bug does not change our work priorities,
> or change that any patch which attempts to implement this functionality will
> be met with a -2 by the engineers that work on the extension. It just leaves
> the bug in a status that does represent our ongoing priorities, which is
> confusing and nothing more.
> I will close the bug once more to rectify that confusion, but after that any
> I'll just leave it because I don't want to spend my time in a bug status
> revert war. Any ramifications for the incorrect status of the bug will be
> your responsibility.
I apologize for my reopening before, I was not aware of that meaning of the
Regarding the placement, I would suggest the sorting is hidden under the
advanced menu, where power users and the curious ones will find it when they
need it without it disturbing the casual reader (who probably will be scared
away by all the namespace boxes if they dare open the advanced menu :) ). But
then again, if it is a separate special page, it might even be prominently
displayed, because the user going there is only expecting to be able to sort.
Would it be better if I created a new enhancement ticket and link to this one
from the description or should this be updated to reflect the change from
search to something else?
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