Hi Gerard, This isn't to do with the question of language labels - it's the (separate) issue of which property should be used when defining a language. We currently have 1,388 instances of P31:Q315, and 7,022 of P31:Q34770, without any obvious reason as to why one or the other.
https://tools.wmflabs.org/autolist/index.php?language=en&project=wikipedia&category=&depth=12&wdq=claim%5B31%3A315%5D&pagepile=&wdqs=&statementlist=&run=Run&mode_manual=or&mode_cat=or&mode_wdq=not&mode_wdqs=or&mode_find=or&chunk_size=10000 https://tools.wmflabs.org/autolist/index.php?language=en&project=wikipedia&category=&depth=12&wdq=claim%5B31%3A34770%5D&pagepile=&wdqs=&statementlist=&run=Run&mode_manual=or&mode_cat=or&mode_wdq=not&mode_wdqs=or&mode_find=or&chunk_size=10000 There are also 1,192 instances of P31:Q33384 ("dialect") though a lot of the ones above seem to be dialects, strictly speaking. https://tools.wmflabs.org/autolist/index.php?language=en&project=wikipedia&category=&depth=12&wdq=claim%5B31%3A33384%5D&pagepile=&wdqs=&statementlist=&run=Run&mode_manual=or&mode_cat=or&mode_wdq=not&mode_wdqs=or&mode_find=or&chunk_size=10000 In total, we have 9,567 items which are using one or more of these, so there's apparently very few using double P31 properties. Definitely an interesting problem to sort out. It looks like we discussed this in 2013 but without really coming to a conclusion: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Interwiki_conflicts/Unresolved/2013#Q4113741.2FQ315.2FQ34770.2FQ13057640_Language.2Flangue Andrew. On 13 June 2016 at 18:16, Gerard Meijssen <[email protected]> wrote: > Hoi, > What is the point of your advise? What the language committee allows is one > dimensional. Dialects are not granted a permit for labels. This only makes > sense once we have dictionary functionality. > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 13 June 2016 at 18:30, Andrew Gray <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi Biyanto, >> >> I think discussing this in English will be hard, as it seems English >> doesn't split out the different concepts... >> >> Going by the French & German, Q315 (Langage \ Sprache) is the abstract >> concept of language (the ability to convey concepts) and Q34770 (Langue \ >> Einzelsprachen) is "a language". So perhaps it would be more correct to say >> that, for example, English is an instance of Q34770. >> >> *However*, Q4536530 seems to also cover the abstract Langage concept, and >> Q315 is marked as a subclass of Q4536530. It feels like we have three items >> covering two concepts - but all three have articles in German so maybe >> there's still another concept? Argh. >> >> I think we need a (German-speaking?) linguist to sort this one out. Do we >> have one on the list? :-) >> >> Andrew. >> >> On 13 June 2016 at 14:06, Biyanto Rebin <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > Thank you Gerard, >> > I usually leave it empty for the language that I couldn't find. >> > >> > Another question, >> > Wikidata have two different item for close term, language in Q315 and >> > language (in linguistics) in Q34770. >> > It's important thing because when I randomly check some of Wikidata >> > using >> > Q315 or Q34770. >> > Any idea how to solve this problem? >> > >> > 2016-06-13 14:14 GMT+07:00 Gerard Meijssen <[email protected]>: >> >> >> >> Hoi, >> >> The language committee agreed that recognised languages of the iso >> >> 639-3 >> >> that indicate single languages may be used without asking on Wikidata. >> >> All >> >> the rest is not covered and consequently needs permission. A code like >> >> no >> >> for Norwegian is not accepted for instance (indicating both nn and nb). >> >> Thanks, >> >> GerardM >> >> >> >> On 13 June 2016 at 09:04, Biyanto Rebin <[email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> What do you mean with permission? Is it regarding with Wikimedia >> >>> language >> >>> code? I usually left the ISO 693-3 code if I couldn't find it. >> >>> >> >>> Best, >> >>> >> >>> 2016-06-11 0:53 GMT+07:00 Gerard Meijssen <[email protected]>: >> >>>> >> >>>> Hoi, >> >>>> When a language cannot be matched to an ISO-639-3 code, it is >> >>>> necessary >> >>>> to ask for permission from the Language Committee first. >> >>>> Thanks, >> >>>> GerardM >> >>>> >> >>>> On 10 June 2016 at 07:34, Biyanto Rebin >> >>>> <[email protected]> >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I use the code that is made by Statistics Indonesia, it's in PDF >> >>>>> format. Unfortunately, Indonesian government's language body, likely >> >>>>> doesn't >> >>>>> have their own code. Some of language in Indonesia still doesn't >> >>>>> have any >> >>>>> ISO 639-3. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Best, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> 2016-06-10 0:36 GMT+07:00 Gerard Meijssen >> >>>>> <[email protected]>: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Hoi, >> >>>>>> Hear hear !! >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> For your information all languages with an ISO-639-3 code may be >> >>>>>> enabled on Wikidata. In time it will prove important for any and >> >>>>>> all >> >>>>>> languages to have many labels in their language. >> >>>>>> Thanks, >> >>>>>> GerardM >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> On 9 June 2016 at 18:53, Andy Mabbett <[email protected]> >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> On 9 June 2016 at 05:42, Biyanto Rebin >> >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> > PS: I'm making WikiProjects Languages in Indonesia, anyone who >> >>>>>>> > want >> >>>>>>> > to join >> >>>>>>> > please let me know :) >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> This is great news, and deserving of its own thread. Subject >> >>>>>>> changed! >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> -- >> >>>>>>> Andy Mabbett >> >>>>>>> @pigsonthewing >> >>>>>>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>> Wikidata mailing list >> >>>>>>> [email protected] >> >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> Wikidata mailing list >> >>>>>> [email protected] >> >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -- >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Biyanto Rebin | Ketua Umum (Chair) 2016-2018 >> >>>>> Wikimedia Indonesia >> >>>>> Nomor Ponsel: +62 8989 037379 >> >>>>> Surel: [email protected] >> >>>>> ~~~~ >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: >> >>>>> http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> Wikidata mailing list >> >>>>> [email protected] >> >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> Wikidata mailing list >> >>>> [email protected] >> >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> >> >>> Biyanto Rebin | Ketua Umum (Chair) 2016-2018 >> >>> Wikimedia Indonesia >> >>> Nomor Ponsel: +62 8989 037379 >> >>> Surel: [email protected] >> >>> ~~~~ >> >>> >> >>> Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: >> >>> http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Wikidata mailing list >> >>> [email protected] >> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Wikidata mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > Biyanto Rebin | Ketua Umum (Chair) 2016-2018 >> > Wikimedia Indonesia >> > Nomor Ponsel: +62 8989 037379 >> > Surel: [email protected] >> > ~~~~ >> > >> > Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan: >> > http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikidata mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >> > >> >> -- >> - Andrew Gray >> [email protected] >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikidata mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikidata mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata > -- - Andrew Gray [email protected] _______________________________________________ Wikidata mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
