On 28 Nov 2008, at 00:27, Ray Saintonge wrote: > Michael Everson wrote: >> On 27 Nov 2008, at 12:05, David Gerard wrote: >> >>> 2008/11/27 Michael Everson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >>> >>>> We haven't proposed that. We proposed "Ireland (state)". >>>> >>> That has a slight smell of neologism - is the term used anywhere >>> outside Wikipedia? >>> >> It is no different from "Georgia (country)" >> > That's because the nationals of a few small countries perceive a > "state" to be a political subdivision.
I don't understand. "Georgia (country)" and "Georgia (state)" would both = Sakartvelo and both contrast with "Georgia (U.S. State)". And the U.S. States are sovereign in a sense (California is more sovereign than County Mayo in Ireland is), though they also are part of a federal structure which is the top-level subdivision in terms of UN recognition. >>> At least "Republic of Ireland" is something it's called in an >>> official document on the state's formation. >> >> >> Incorrect. The Constitution of Ireland (1937) specifies that >> "Ireland" is the name of the state. The Republic of Ireland Act >> (1948) specifies that "Republic of Ireland" is a "description" of >> the state. >> > Does the 1937 Constitution actually use the word "state"? Yes. Clause 2 is "the State" and section 4 states "The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland." > Would [[Ireland (Republic)]] be sufficient to emphasize that the > term "republic" is merely descriptive. I don't believe it would be preferable. to changee [[Republic of Ireland]] to [[Ireland (republic)]] or to [[Ireland (Republic)]] -- I think you'd get push-back on that. I could ask, but just at the moment that might be poking the hornet's nest. >> Once again, the best compromise proposal: >> >> Ireland --> disambiguation page >> Ireland (island) --> about the island, comparable to the "Great >> Britain" article >> Ireland (state) --> about the state. >> > > While I have no difficulty with [[Ireland (state)]]. I think that > reducing [[Ireland]] to a disambiguation page diminishes the term. "Diminish"? I don't see how. The word "Ireland" is well and truly ambiguous. It *could* point to the modern state, but that pisses a lot of Northern Ireland editors off. Hence the compromise. > There is nothing in what your proposal that would adequately deal > with pre-1922 Ireland. You mean, pre-1922 Ireland as a political unit? [[Irish_Free_State]] deals with Ireland 1922-1937; The proposed [[Ireland (state)]] deals with the modern country. We've got [[Irish_states_since_1171]]. I don't see the problem. It's a complex situation. With the article name changes as proposed I think we'd have a good shot at sorting out the articles though. Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list [email protected] To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
