I notice that the most bitter disputes tend to be about controversial journalists. I myself consider him of borderline notability. However, since the standard for inclusion of a person in article content content is not the person mentioned being notable, but of being pertinent and sourced, I reverted the removal from the article on the NYP article, and warned the person who did it about removal of sourced material without discussion.
I haven't looked at CounterPunch yet, which has a more complicated history. We do aim at NPOV, and I and almost everyone at Wikipedia will try to help achieve it. But obviously with our basic principle of editing violations cant be prevented--and probably can not all be corrected either. But we can work towards it.. It takes persistence and patience. David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 11:54 PM, Bill Carter <[email protected]> wrote: > One of the biggest lies being spouted at Wikipedia is the one about how there > is generally a NPOV. Wikipedia administrator David Gerard recently wrote on > this mailing list, "NPOV is our key innovation. Much more radical than > letting anyone edit the website." In fact, Wikipedia is a battleground in > which the opinions of the most competitive group win out, rather than some > theoretical neutral POV. Many of you are far more knowledgeable about the POV > pushers at Wikipedia and know exactly how patently false the NPOV doctrine is. > > A Wikipedia article was recently written about Alan Cabal that, in my > opinion, met Wikipedia's notability standards beyond a doubt > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MichaelQSchmidt/sandbox_The_unloved_article). > It was speedy deleted on March 30th, 2009 within hours of being re-created. > A deletion review followed which was conducted like a 4th AfD and the outcome > was that the speedy delete was upheld > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2009_March_30). > Throughout there was talk of keeping one's personal views to oneself. > Completely ridiculous considering user Bali ultimate, who nominated the Alan > Cabal article for speedy deletion, later admitted that he had been watching > its rewrite very closely for weeks and that's why he had pounced! Immediately > afterward I looked into David Gerard's aphorism and, looking far back, found > that he had said the same thing years ago on another Wikipedia mailing list: > "I think NPOV is our greatest > innovation, much more radical than letting anyone edit the website." > (http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2007-August/029947.html) > > Now there is an ongoing discussion in the CounterPunch article about how mere > mentions of Alan Cabal are being expunged from the entire website > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:CounterPunch#Expunging_Alan_Cable_.28Alan_Cabal.29). > The CounterPunch article already has a sordid history. For example, on > January 28th, 2009, user Jarjam copyedited the CounterPunch article to say, > "CounterPunch has also been > criticized for publishing articles by > authors such as Alan Cabal and Daniel A. McGowan who have > defended the pro-Hitler persepective of Holocaust deniers such as Ernest > Zundel. Zundel is the author of 'The Hitle We Loved and > Why'."(http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=CounterPunch&diff=267015135&oldid=263748961). > Nearly two months later this "unsourced libellous claim of contributors > being pro-Hitler" was removed by user Rd232, on March 22nd 2009 to be exact > (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=CounterPunch&diff=278994805&oldid=278994056). > Instead of getting it right, Alan Cabal's article "Star Chamber Redux: the > Prosecution of Zundel" was simply left out of the article and then on April > 5th, 2009, user Verbal removed the last mention of Alan Cabal that remained > in the CounterPunch article > (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=CounterPunch&diff=281912735&oldid=280865106). > David Gerard truly believes there is a NPOV on this website, and has even > defended his ownership over his future Barlett quotation: "Mostly I'm the > person I know > of calling it Wikipedia's greatest > innovation ;-p much more so than merely letting anyone edit the > website. Are there others?" (June 2008, David Gerard, > http://infoholics-anonymous.blogspot.com/2008/06/changing-world-via-wikipedia.html) > > Such a thorough job has been done this past week of wiping Wikipedia clean of > any mention of Alan Cabal that even the Wikipedia article for New York Press > no longer lists him as a former contributor > (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=New_York_Press&diff=281915790&oldid=275246572). > David Gerard so firmly believes that Wikipedia has a NPOV that he can be > found repeating again and again, "Wikipedia’s fundamental content policy of > Neutral Point of View is, in > my opinion, its greatest innovation - far greater than merely letting > anyone edit the website." ( September 2007, David Gerard) > (http://ivo.co.za/2007/09/20/wikipedia-as-efficient-market/) On his blog: "I > consider the Neutral Point Of View policy our most important innovation, far > more so than letting anyone edit the site." > (http://davidgerard.co.uk/notes/2007/12/17/rorschach-knols/) (December 2007, > David Gerard). > > Probably the reason Alan Cabal has been viciously persecuted by Wikipedians > for over a year now is because he has defended the freedom of speech of > holocaust denier Ernst Zundel. But then again Alan Cabal has written so many > controversial articles over the years that I guess Wikipedians could have > many reasons for suppressing his biography and work. For the last time, I > leave you with another permutation of what is surely David Gerard's greatest > quote: "NPOV is Wikipedia's greatest innovation - far greater than letting > any idiot edit the website." > (http://article.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.english/92817) > > Sincerely, > Bill Carter > > > > > _______________________________________________ > WikiEN-l mailing list > [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list [email protected] To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
