Hi all, In the online meeting it was said that we should at our comments to the talk page: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:Evaluation/Evaluation_reports/2015/Wiki_Loves_Monuments
Romaine 2015-05-06 18:17 GMT+02:00 Edward Galvez <[email protected]>: > Hi Roel, > > See my response: > > On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 5:12 AM, Roel Balingit < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> I believe that calculation is unfair because it prejudices communities >> where free knowledge isn't widely accepted as well as countries which have >> limited Internet penetration. Just a general statement. >> > > This is really great to hear from your perspective. We totally acknowledge > that there are differences! The report is a first step to learning about > the programs looking at some metrics globally. The next step is to do > interviewers with people from all over to learn the best practices in > different contexts, and share them in the form of a toolkit. > > > >> >> >> >> >> *ROEL BALINGIT* >> *Treasurer* >> *______________________________________________________________* >> *WIKIMEDIA PHILIPPINES* >> *G/F Gervacia Center, 152 Amorsolo Street, Legaspi Village, 1229 Makati >> City* >> *T: +63-2-8123277 <%2B63-2-8123277> | F: +63-2-8127177 <%2B63-2-8127177> >> | M: +63-917-8807635 <%2B63-917-8807635> * >> *W: **www.wikimedia.org.ph <http://www.wikimedia.org.ph/> | >> E: [email protected] <[email protected]>* >> >> ******************************************************************* >> ******************************************** >> This e-mail is confidential. It may also be legally privileged. If you >> are not the addressee you >> may not copy, forward, disclose or use any part of it. If you have >> received this message in >> error, please delete it and all copies from your system and notify the sender >> immediately by >> return e-mail. >> >> Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be timely, secure, error >> or virus-free. The >> sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions. >> ******************************************************************* >> ******************************************** >> >> >> On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 8:08 PM, Ilario Valdelli <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> To be clear. Here the benefits are not calculated because we consider >>> that a single upload is a benefit. >>> >>> What is missed is the time of the volunteers. >>> >>> If we calculate the overload of the community to check photos or to look >>> for copyviol, this relation changes. >>> >>> It an important parameter because a volunteer to filter a huge amount of >>> poor photos or of copyviol has a negative impact in other activities. >>> >>> Basically these parameters are not realistic. >>> Il 05/Mag/2015 13:59, "Ilario Valdelli" <[email protected]> ha scritto: >>> >>>> It's un unclear. >>>> >>>> A god shot on the market costs more than 50 dollars. >>>> >>>> Everything in high quality is a benefit. >>>> >>>> So the aim is not to calculate a cost per shot but the relation costs >>>> benefits. >>>> >>>> Basically the delta. >>>> >>>> If there is the need to evaluate the success considering the poor >>>> relation costs per upload, there is no sense to have a photo contest. An >>>> editathon will produce more results. >>>> Il 05/Mag/2015 12:21, "Ivo Kruusamägi" <[email protected]> ha >>>> scritto: >>>> >>>>> I've collected photos for Commons with cost lower than 0.01 $ per >>>>> image, so I don't like claims, that "A god shot of a professional >>>>> artist doesn't cost 0.90 dollars". Considering the fact, that average >>>>> upload in WLM is usually out of rather poor quality and will not find >>>>> itself a place in an article, then thous things aren't that easily >>>>> comparable. >>>>> >>>>> I specially like the comment about Romaine, and I have taken somewhat >>>>> similar approach. Only if I'm able to provide constant work for the >>>>> newcomers there is some chance of keeping them with the program. Getting >>>>> images vs getting users are two rather different aims. I have also set >>>>> interest towards getting quality images as we have so many contributors >>>>> per >>>>> capita in Estonia, that it isn't very likely to get an increase there >>>>> without some rather desperate means. But just focusing on images could >>>>> help >>>>> to get significantly better quality contributions. >>>>> >>>>> As of this evaluation I'd actually like to get some selected examples, >>>>> that would explain somewhat on what others have done and what kind of >>>>> differences there are. For instance, if someone spends thousands of >>>>> dollars >>>>> for this campaign, then I'd like to know where the money went, as I can't >>>>> personally think of any places on where to spend that much. Or what kind >>>>> of >>>>> outreach approach was taken to achieve the x goals etc. >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> Ivo Kruusamägi >>>>> >>>>> 2015-05-05 11:06 GMT+03:00 Ilario Valdelli <[email protected]>: >>>>> >>>>>> To specify what I am saying: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Evaluation/Evaluation_reports/2015/Wiki_Loves_Monuments/Outputs >>>>>> >>>>>> In the paragraph "Content Production and Quality Improvement" it's >>>>>> not mentioned any paragraph about the quality of the photos. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's a photo contest and the photo contest gives a prize to the best >>>>>> photos not to the biggest uploaders. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is an example of divergence between the real aim of the projects >>>>>> and the measures of the evaluation. >>>>>> >>>>>> Probably there is a misunderstanding in same place. >>>>>> >>>>>> A god shot of a professional artist doesn't cost 0.90 dollars. >>>>>> >>>>>> To measure the success the best approach is to consider that a god >>>>>> shot can costs around 50-100 dollars. >>>>>> >>>>>> Replying to people that agree that the measure is to cover articles, >>>>>> I agree with them but I also agree that there is no sense to have bad >>>>>> photos even if these photos are not "descriptive". >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 9:46 AM, Ilario Valdelli <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Lodewijk, >>>>>>> it's not the fisrt time that I am saying that the measures of the >>>>>>> evaluation are able to measure quantities and not qualities. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If the aim of Wikimedia is to improve also the qualities, it's clear >>>>>>> the direction that the movement is taking. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know that measuring quantities is easier, but it's not an >>>>>>> evaluation, are simple numbers without a clear "strategy". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> regards >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 1:26 PM, Lodewijk < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> it seems that the WMF evaluation department has once again put >>>>>>>> together an evaluation of Wiki Loves Monuments. Out of curiosity, were >>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>> of the organizers involved in this? A quick glance suggests some >>>>>>>> factual >>>>>>>> errors, and again a big focus on assuming WLM is a consistent project, >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> is similar in each country (while in reality it is a diverse >>>>>>>> collection of >>>>>>>> projects, tailored to the needs of each country, by its community) and >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> a focus towards number crunching. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Statements that begin with 'the average Wiki Loves Monuments >>>>>>>> implementation/contest' make my eyes bleed... Did anyone make a more >>>>>>>> thorough analysis of the report? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> Lodewijk >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>>>>>>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Ilario Valdelli >>>>>>> Wikimedia CH >>>>>>> Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens >>>>>>> Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre >>>>>>> Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera >>>>>>> Switzerland - 8008 Zürich >>>>>>> Wikipedia: Ilario <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ilario> >>>>>>> Skype: valdelli >>>>>>> Facebook: Ilario Valdelli <https://www.facebook.com/ivaldelli> >>>>>>> Twitter: Ilario Valdelli <https://twitter.com/ilariovaldelli> >>>>>>> Linkedin: Ilario Valdelli >>>>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=6724469> >>>>>>> Tel: +41764821371 >>>>>>> http://www.wikimedia.ch >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Ilario Valdelli >>>>>> Wikimedia CH >>>>>> Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens >>>>>> Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre >>>>>> Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera >>>>>> Switzerland - 8008 Zürich >>>>>> Wikipedia: Ilario <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ilario> >>>>>> Skype: valdelli >>>>>> Facebook: Ilario Valdelli <https://www.facebook.com/ivaldelli> >>>>>> Twitter: Ilario Valdelli <https://twitter.com/ilariovaldelli> >>>>>> Linkedin: Ilario Valdelli >>>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=6724469> >>>>>> Tel: +41764821371 >>>>>> http://www.wikimedia.ch >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>>>>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>>>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >>>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >> > > > > -- > Edward Galvez > Program Evaluation Associate > Wikimedia Foundation > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >
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