Hi all, Having spoken with some people, I have come to the conclusion that it is time to ask the Wikimedia community what they think about this situation. I have especially seen both parties, the Wiki Loves Monuments organising teams who like to have a banner for Wiki Loves Monuments in September, and the WMF Fundraising team who likes to have a fundraising banner in September. Then the question remains: what has more value for the Wikimedia movement?
To find out what the Wikimedia community thinks about this situation, I have set up this Request for Comment: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Fundraising_banner_or_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_banner Romaine 2015-08-30 15:35 GMT+02:00 Romaine Wiki <romaine.w...@gmail.com>: > Hi all, > > New update: > > The Italian team had some calls with the fundraising team and it resulted > in: > * Wiki Loves Monuments gets the whole 4th week of September. So we will > have the WLM banner alone the first and the last week. > * WLM IT is discussing with the community a message in the Main Page of > Wikipedia > * WMF will try to put a link to WLM in the banner > * WMF will put a link to WLM in the Thank You letter for donors. > * WMF is helping WLM Italy with a blogpost in the blog, and social media > fire > > They made clear this won't happen again. > > To me, the only improvements is their promise it won't happen again, what > we certainly keep them having their promise in future, and that the amount > of time the Wiki Loves Monuments banner is shown will be 50% of the time. > > The rest of the outcomes is lousy and they sold us empty boxes. Wiki Loves > Monuments depends for about 99% on a CentralNotice banner. Most visitors to > Wikipedia do not visit the main page of a wiki. I do not believe a small > link to WLM in a large fundraising banner would help or is seen. I do not > believe that a link in the Thank You letter for donors would work. A > blogpost will be written anyway, as Wiki Loves Monuments is the largest > project of the Wikimedia movement, but still it would not reach to the core > people Wiki Loves Monuments is aiming at. And a social media fire, I have > no believe in it that WMF would have any control in such and the core > infrastructure is not under control by WMF. > > And still no explanation why it is not possible to move the fundraising > banner to a month later... > > I can only conclude that we have been put off, in Dutch: afgescheept > worden (literally: being shipped of). > > At such having a blocking banner is sad news. A competition is large > ruined by it. > > What I consider the most demotivating is the play the fundraising team of > WMF has played. I certainly do not consider it fair play. Too many empty > promises, dividing the community to get less resistance, no fair > negotiations, usage of the inexperience of volunteers, and more. > > And even after explaining the community perspective many times by multiple > people, I still have the impression some people in WMF still do not really > get it. > > I had the occasion in the past weeks that I spoke with people from WMF who > are working for the foundation for some years, and I had to explain what > Wiki Loves Monuments is. (And that was not the first time.) It is the > largest project of the movement, recognised as largest photo contest in the > world, and some WMF people do not know or understand. I was so friendly to > explain it of course, but it gave mixed feelings. > > And even after explaining the community perspective many times by multiple > people, they do not really get it. > > Lessons to be learned: > * Do not assume that the fundraising team takes the best position for the > movement, they have a target to make. > * Do not assume the fundraising team plays a fair play. They have a lot of > weight and use it. > * Do not assume that their first offer (in case of a blocking banner) is a > balanced, reasonable and well thought one. > * Do not expect them to know how much the impact is of something. > * Do expect them to offer empty shells/boxes/etc and are not impressed by > those. > * Say always no if they ask if a blocking banner or two banners at the > same time is okay. It has a devastating effect on your results. Yes you > can, some chapters did and that was taken into account seriously. > * Always have the complete team involved in the communication, and even > think of asking advisers (from outside WMF) for support and feedback on the > proposals. Always have someone involved who has years of experience in this > matter, otherwise you loose and the whole community looses. > > But I think the best lesson learned is: with every blocking banner, let > the community publicly decide what should be chosen. > > Romaine > > > > > 2015-08-30 14:00 GMT+02:00 Steinsplitter Wiki <steinsplitter-w...@live.com > >: > >> I 100% agree with rupert's thoughts. >> >> Wiki(p|m)edia was and is mad be volunteers, therefore volunteer first >> should apply. Volunteers are contributing the content for exactly zero >> dollars per hour. It is all because of free knowledge and other stuff, but >> not about money. It looks like money is fore some people moor important >> than free knowledge. It is frustrating... >> >> Regards, >> Steinsplitter >> >> > From: rupert.thur...@gmail.com >> > Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 21:35:46 +0200 >> > To: janb...@wikimedia.org; patricio.lore...@gmail.com; >> me.ly...@gmail.com; ubifri...@gmail.com; jmh...@gmail.com; >> dar...@alk.edu.pl; denny.vrande...@kit.edu; jwa...@wikia.com; >> s...@wikimedia.org >> > CC: wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org; >> wikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org >> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments >> in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising >> > >> > dear board, >> > >> > allow me to directly ask you to stop these fundraising persons to spoil >> > wiki loves monuments because of less than intelligent KPIs. WMF cannot >> and >> > should not behave like an elephant in the porcelain shop. there is a >> simple >> > technical solution to the problem below, to have a combined banner for >> WLM >> > and donation. it is impossible that more money at stake as is covered by >> > the reserves, isn't it? i am really lacking words here ... the only >> ones i >> > could find would not be compliant with the friendly space policy. if we >> as >> > movement do not follow through the "volunteer first" rule than it is >> better >> > to dissolve WMF, or split it in two parts, one holding the rights to the >> > web URLs, i.e. right to banner, the other one employing all the people >> > doing some work. >> > >> > best, >> > rupert >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Andrea Zanni <zanni.andre...@gmail.com >> > >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Hello everyone. >> > > Sorry for the long mail but we wanted to explain the situation for >> > > Wikimedia Italia. >> > > The conversation is going on and it's better to clear some important >> > > points. >> > > >> > > In the second week of August Wikimedia Italia has been contacted by >> > > Kalliope Tsouroupidou and later by Jessica Robell, who explained that >> the >> > > Wikimedia Foundation was planning to have a fundraising campaign in >> Italy >> > > in September. >> > > We have been surprised by that, since Wiki Loves Monuments is >> well-known to >> > > run in September, and it has been like that for years. >> > > Moreover, there has been a similar clash in 2014: we discussed for >> several >> > > days, and in the end we reached a compromise, and the FR banners went >> live >> > > just for the last days. >> > > It was not perfect, but we had WLM banners for almost all September. >> > > This year the clash is on the whole month of September. Given the >> history, >> > > and the very fact that Wikimedia Italia has planned WLM and written >> so in >> > > the FDC application, we feel that WMIT has not been negligible in >> matters >> > > of >> > > communication. >> > > We are not *happy* with the situation, >> > > the very existence of the clash, the fact that all this appeared in >> the >> > > middle of August, while we were all on holiday and just few weeks >> before >> > > the beginning of WLM. >> > > We just decided not to pick up a fight, as we believe in constructive >> > > conversation and negotiation. >> > > The agreement we reached is very painful for WMIT and WLM: it's just >> better >> > > than not having the banners at all, or to have them for just a few >> days in >> > > the middle of September. >> > > Conversations with the FR team has been firm, but polite: this does >> not >> > > mean that we are happy about what is happening. >> > > Moreover, we will have to discuss with FDC to renegotiate expected >> results >> > > for WLM in 2015. >> > > >> > > Having the fundraising campaign in September in Italy has a clear >> negative >> > > impact on Wiki Loves Monuments, the largest project of Wikimedia >> Italia. >> > > This will not only likely reduce the number of participants and >> uploaded >> > > pictures, but will also put us in a difficult position in front of our >> > > sponsors and partners, including 200+ municipalities, 100+ cultural >> > > institutions, and some major partners, like FIAF (the Federation of >> Italian >> > > photographers' associations), ICOM (the International Council of >> Museums), >> > > the Toscana Foto Festival (a major photo festival), Touring Club >> Italiano >> > > (the largest Italian touristic association), and others. WMIT spends >> > > thousands of euros in WLM each year - not because we waste money, but >> > > because we have higher stakes. >> > > >> > > This year, we will have in the Italian Jury international renowned >> > > photographers like (prabably: yet to be confirmed) Steve McCurry ( >> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_McCurry) and Franco Fontana ( >> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco_Fontana). >> > > This year, in June, we were received by several politicians from the >> > > Italian Parliament for an official meeting regarding the law we are >> > > fighting >> > > as WMIT. >> > > >> > > Because of the specific challenges we face, WLM in Italy goes beyond >> being >> > > a photographic competition and is also an opportunity to create >> > > relationships and advocate for the freedom of taking pictures of >> monuments. >> > > >> > > Italy does not have "freedom of panorama". >> > > Worst, Italy does not have freedom of panorama for any kind of >> monuments, >> > > even if copyright has expired. >> > > We need to ask for permission to make pictures of monuments. For. >> Every. >> > > Monument. >> > > We have to create lists of monuments to be photographed. There is no >> > > official list of monuments in Italy. >> > > >> > > There is *extensive* documentation here: >> > > >> > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Italian_cultural_heritage_on_the_Wikimedia_projects >> > > >> > > This is very important to know to put in perspective WLM Italy stats: >> > > http://stats.wikilovesmonuments.cl/italy. As an example, it is the >> reason >> > > why we have so many participants who contribute for few pics each. In >> 2014 >> > > alone, we had 1038 uploaders, but we were only 6th in terms of number >> of >> > > photos. >> > > >> > > The global fundraising is essential to our movement. >> > > It funds Wikipedia operations, software development, the Wikimedia >> > > Foundation, many chapters and affiliates, and, of course, also Wiki >> Loves >> > > Monuments (even tough in Italy it is primarily funded from other >> sources). >> > > The global fundraising is meant to support the Wikimedia movement: >> but, for >> > > this very reason, it is a pity to have it clashing to one of the very >> > > activities it is meant to support. >> > > Especially since we are not talking about a 2 hours editathon in a >> small >> > > library in the middle of nowhere, but about an international >> competition >> > > who ended up in the Guinnes World Records, bringing thousands of >> pictures >> > > to the Wikimedia projects. >> > > We understand that fundraising is not an easy job, especially when it >> is >> > > done on a global level. Yet we feel obliged to use donors money to >> build >> > > and deliver the best projects we can: firstly out of respect for all >> the >> > > people who decided to donate their time, their money or their career >> to the >> > > movement; secondly because a badly executed projects could also have a >> > > negative impact on the next fundraising campaigns. >> > > We are all part of the same movement: the work of the WMF fundraising >> team >> > > is strictly linked to that of the community. We would like to be >> confident >> > > that what is happening now won't happen for a third time, and that in >> the >> > > future we will be able to communicate more effectively and work more >> > > collaboratively. >> > > We really are looking forward a more effective cooperation with WMF >> and all >> > > other Wikimedia Affiliates: collaboration is the very pillar of all >> the >> > > Wikimedia movement. >> > > >> > > We would like to thank all the people who supported us and gave us >> opinions >> > > and advices on this mailing list and elsewhere. >> > > We are very proud to be part of such a great community, and we would >> like >> > > to see it become wider and bigger. >> > > >> > > Andrea Zanni >> > > for the board of Wikimedia Italia >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> > > wikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org >> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l >> , >> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> > wikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> wikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/guidelineswikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> > >
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