@antanana   have you considered cross posting this to
https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/glam.lists.wikimedia.org/ and
possibly creating a diff post? These lessons learned would be really
valuable for other community members working on other living and cultural
heritage projects.

Cheers,

Alex

On Sat, Apr 15, 2023 at 5:01 PM attolippip <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hello there!
>
> I am sharing my reflections below as the organiser of the Photographic
> Film Special Nomination in Wiki Loves Monuments Ukraine this year -- this
> was the first time we did something like this, and we have just announced
> the results on Friday: https://wlm.org.ua/film-results-2022/ (the blog is
> in Ukrainian, but you can see the pictures, and the years they were taken
> in are in the attribution).
>
> == Context ==
> So, 2022 was especially challenging for us as the organisers, as we had to
> limit accepting participants' submissions only to pictures taken before
> February 24, 2022, when the russian army started a full-scale invasion of
> Ukraine, as we feared for the participants safety (believe me, even in
> peaceful times a stranger coming to your remote village to take pictures of
> buildings can be weird; during the active full-scale invasion the level of
> suspicion is tripled at least), and we also worried about encouraging their
> accidentally filming some military actions or objects.
>
> This does mean less quality (people might upload pictures from their
> archives they have not uploaded during previous years, as they know about
> the contest, but have no chance to upload newer pictures) and quantity (for
> obvious reasons of people who just learnt about the contest not being able
> to join, unless before February 24, 2022, they had a hobby of taking
> pictures of cultural monuments around them). And it is also challenging
> interest-wise -- unless you had something to upload -- you are out. We also
> realised that we have very limited resources to organise ourselves -- too
> many things and people to worry about, while taking care of lists or
> templates. So we needed a light version contest, but also to find something
> interesting to try to tap into new audiences we have not yet had
> time/resources to tap into.
>
> So, we decided to implement an idea a Ukrainian Wikimedian, Nataliia
> Lastovets, had -- to have a special category for scanned photographic film
> -- the Photographic Film Special Nomination -- with pictures (of course)
> taken before February 24, 2022, accepting files of cultural monuments
> created from scanned photographic films or scanned/photographed prints,
> made by a film camera originally.
>
> == Challenges and lessons learnt ==
> First of all, if one aims at having a light version of the contest -- *this
> nomination is not an easy *one to organise :) We, of course, went lighter
> on the promotional part of this due to our own limited volunteer resources
> (and promotion is really important, and we should have done more there, of
> course), but we did have ads on social media (Facebook, Instagram), and did
> reach out to cool professional photographers on Instagram, telling them
> about the contest, and that if they are not interested in taking part,
> maybe they would agree to become jury members.
>
> We also had to figure out *how to check the uploads* -- our upload form
> was asking people to mark pictures as "photographic film" ones, and we had
> a separate category for them, but we still ended up with more than 600
> pictures, and before giving them to the jury members, we had to check them.
> The WLX Jury Tool
> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:WLX_Jury_Tool>we are using to
> rate pictures would not be useful for this, opening ~600 files to check the
> EXIFs and descriptions would be quite time consuming. So User:Ahonc had to
> create a script to get all the possibly useful data from the pictures in
> the category in one table:
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ahonc/WLM-2022_UA/images/films
>
> With this, we just needed to check the uploads done by non-film cameras.
> Of course, we could not just dismiss those files, as a film print from 1990
> could have been photographed with a modern non-film camera (or even a
> mobile), so we also looked at the user pages, sometimes people mention that
> they are professional photographers, and chances of their pictures being on
> a photographic film are higher. We also reached out to those users we knew
> -- some of them indeed mistakenly marked pictures for the nomination...
> Long story short -- it took us quite some time to remove pictures we were
> certain didn't belong. And when we had ~400, we started the first jury
> round.
>
> *More information is needed at the upload stage. *For the first round we
> asked them to select up to 50 entries out of ~400 that would go to the next
> round. They selected 95, and then they rated them with points (20 points
> was max, 1 point was minimum). We planned to award 10 best pictures, but we
> ended up with 23 entries to select from. If we had time and resources, we
> would have tried to organise an additional round, an online call or meetup,
> but this was just a bit too much to do, so, I just basically wrote to each
> author directly, listing pictures, and asking to provide for more details.
> And indeed, some of those pictures were not taken using a photographic
> film. That really helped to narrow the pool.
>
> What's more, the authors using photographic films, were able to provide
> quite detailed stories about their pictures, when they were taken, and in
> most cases technical information including camera models, what kind of film
> they used, lenses etc. It was quite impressive, to tell you the truth :) We
> ended up selecting 10 best pictures. But it seems that the upload form for
> this kind of content should include not only a checkbox for this special
> nomination, but also fields for camera model, lenses, film, year it was
> taken, additional information -- first, it will help the participants
> themselves to make sure they are not making an automatic mistake, and
> secondly, it will help with checking the uploads. That way people do not
> upload hordes of pictures, they (in a way) treasure them, and remember
> (sometimes) each frame, the weather it was taken in, angle, context, etc.
>
> *The jury has to have professional photographers, who themselves use
> photographic film*. It is sometimes more difficult to organise -- we
> expect them to be volunteers, and cost them working hours; it is not as if
> we provide them with a lot of professional fame or that the quality of our
> submissions is guaranteed. Finding these people is still possible, just...
> difficult.
>
> == Outcomes ===
> We have determined the 10 best pictures as we planned. We also showcased 8
> more pictures, sometimes adding up to a set. You can see them here:
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2022_in_Ukraine#«Фотоплівка»
>
> We still have ~400 pictures we cannot be certain have been taken using
> photographic film, unfortunately. On the bright side -- we are now smarter
> as organisers, and if we decide to do it again, we would take into account
> our lessons learnt. And we would probably be better positioned to make more
> new and interesting mistakes :)
>
> Anyway, sorry for the long read, I just thought documenting our experience
> here, on the list, has some value for organisers to (maybe) come.
>
> See you all around!
>
> З повагою / Best regards,
> antanana
> Wiki Loves Monuments Ukraine
> Wikimania 2023 Program Subcommittee
> Wikimedia CEE Meeting 2023 Programme Committee
>
> Disclaimer: This letter is sent in my Wikimedia volunteer capacity, not as
> a Board member of Wikimedia Foundation
>
>
> нд, 18 вер. 2022 р. о 12:33 attolippip <[email protected]> пише:
>
>> Thank you. Yes, we were thinking of creating a special nomination for
>> that kind of pictures -- we were thinking of scanned films, but you are
>> correct in pointing out that some can actually have only prints. Both
>> copyright issues and how to understand if a picture was taken on a film,
>> and not digitally, are a part of issues we are trying to figure out...
>> Reaching out to professional societies is a good idea for a start, thanks!
>> I am not sure how much (if anything) will come out of our efforts to have a
>> contest this year, but we shall see
>>
>> З повагою / Best regards,
>> antanana
>> Wiki Loves Monuments Ukraine
>>
>> Disclaimer: This letter is sent in my Wikimedia volunteer capacity, not
>> as a Board member of Wikimedia Foundation
>>
>>
>> нд, 18 вер. 2022 р. о 10:27 Yaroslav Blanter <[email protected]> пише:
>>
>>> Hi Nat,
>>>
>>> do you mean scanned films or scanned prints?
>>>
>>> The process was first to process the film, and then go on to make
>>> prints. In the former Soviet Union, for b/w prints, everything was made at
>>> home with a simple equipment; for color, unless you are professional, you
>>> would have to go to a shop. Btw colored photographs were usually for
>>> producing slides, and people did not make prints but rather projected them
>>> on the screen. Now, scanning film is difficult and requires special
>>> equipment, but scanning prints only requires a standard scanner.
>>>
>>> Most people stopped using film in around 2000. and thus they are not so
>>> old now (they would typically start taking pictures at 10-15, and, for
>>> example, I am 55 now and I still had 25 years of film experience). The
>>> problems are more that prints get lost or stayed behind as people are
>>> moving, and that after 30 years they are not exactly sure what they were
>>> filming. I would suggest a special nomination for scans of prints, if it
>>> still can be done this year (though you have to be extra careful to make
>>> sure people scan their own photographs).
>>>
>>> For professional photographers, this is a never-ending story but I would
>>> start with professional societies.
>>>
>>> Best
>>> Yaroslav
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 17, 2022 at 11:01 PM attolippip <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> hello there!
>>>> has anyone tried locally to organise something around outreach to
>>>> photographers whose pictures were made on photographic films?
>>>>
>>>> we have not had such a campaign in Ukraine before, just individual
>>>> efforts, like when a Wikipedian convinced an old photographer to upload his
>>>> pictures of lost heritage to Commons, they had to scan his films to do
>>>> that: https://www.wikilovesmonuments.org/photos-of-destroyed-heritage/
>>>>
>>>> as this year (to make sure people are not roaming around taking
>>>> pictures for their own safety) for the Ukrainian part of the contest we
>>>> decided to accept only pictures taken before February 24, 2022, we thought
>>>> of maybe looking for ways to reach this audience -- photographers whose
>>>> pictures are on films, so most probably old enough... but maybe there are
>>>> some tips/things to be aware of when dealing with scanned films, and
>>>> somebody on the list has travelled down this path already, and can share
>>>> useful information?
>>>>
>>>> (sorry for crossposting, i have also asked about this on the telegram
>>>> channel)
>>>>
>>>> З повагою / Best regards,
>>>> antanana
>>>> Wiki Loves Monuments Ukraine
>>>>
>>>> Disclaimer: This letter is sent in my Wikimedia volunteer capacity, not
>>>> as a Board member of Wikimedia Foundation
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>>>
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>>
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-- 
Alex Stinson
Lead Program Strategist
Wikimedia Foundation
Twitter: @sadads

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