There are several problem layers raised in this thread.
1) What are monuments (official recognition versus other definitions)
This definition should be left open for local organizers to
define. A plaque honoring the victims of a police massacre in Rio de Janeiro
put up by the local community was destroyed by the police last year: There are
political forces and risks impeding even the registration of such monument. I
totally agree that we need some type of public reference, but I personally
would never limit those to “official”. We, in Brasil, use even school work of
students registering their historical neighborhood buildings and statues.
2) How the organizers build their list of monuments
Wikidata is a great solution, specially for these kind of
monuments that don’t have an official identifier or registration number. There
are questions of modeling the information on the Project as well.
3) Will submissions from those lists be accepted in the international phase of
the competition
This issue is raised by the other problems, but should exist at
all. The international jury should never be the ones deciding what is and what
is not a monument. At the point they start judging the images, the local
organizers already submitted the 10 images of monuments of their country,
therefore, the local teams already validated that that image depicts a monument
of their list.
For Michelle, I agree with Lodewijk that ideally the references should be
public, of course there are ways to model this information, but is the best
practice. Whatever help you need modeling this, please contact me. I’m happy to
help.
Cheers,
Éder Porto
De: effe iets anders<mailto:[email protected]>
Enviado:terça-feira, 27 de junho de 2023 16:12
Para: Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph
Competition<mailto:[email protected]>
Assunto: [Wiki Loves Monuments] Re: Participating without officially
registered/published monument list?
All very valuable thoughts and insights. Thanks everyone for sharing!
Some additional thoughts of my own:
Official can mean many things. I think the more important word I'd use is
"authoritative". Does the fact that something is on that list, mean something?
A list of "favorite buildings" by a random youtuber would probably not be a
great list to use, but a provisional list from the government, a list by an
established group of heritage enthusiasts in the country or some national
museum are great examples of what would be great. This could be also a
combination of multiple of such (smaller) lists.
Secondly, I would suggest to really try to work with public lists only. We
can't work with a secret list - participants need to be able to go to the list
and identify which building can be photographed. If the list compiler is
willing to publish the list, that would address that. You could consider
helping them do that.
Best,
Lodewijk
On Tue, Jun 27, 2023 at 11:53 AM attolippip
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I agree with Yaroslav and Éder above. I can just add that as we consider the
goal of the contest to help illustrate Wikipedia and wikiprojects, we have been
organising "special category/nominations" for objects that due to different
reasons were not "officially recognised" by our state, but were valuable for
illustrating Wikipedia. For example, Jewish
Heritage<https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D1%96%D0%BA%D1%96%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D1%96%D1%8F:%D0%92%D1%96%D0%BA%D1%96_%D0%BB%D1%8E%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%8C_%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%BC'%D1%8F%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%B8/%D0%84%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B9%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%B4%D1%89%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0?uselang=en>.
The pictures of the objects without "official status" were just not submitted
to the international part of the contest, and only awarded locally (usually
with some thematic partners). We even had cases when some of the objects were
later recognised as monuments officially, and we had their pictures handy, or
destroyed completely, and then having those pictures under a free license was
at least something...
З повагою / Best regards,
antanana
Wiki Loves Monuments Ukraine
Wikimania 2023 Program Subcommittee
Wikimedia CEE Meeting 2023 Programme Committee
Disclaimer: This letter is sent in my Wikimedia volunteer capacity, not as a
Board member of Wikimedia Foundation
On Tue, Jun 27, 2023, 21:26 Éder Porto F Alves
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I agree with Yaroslav that the offical recognition status of monuments
shouldn't raise problems on the lists.
I'm an advocate for local organizers define 1) what are their local concepts of
"monuments" and 2) what are the monuments on their lists. Once this is done,
the whole process comes down to (or should've come down to) the judgment of the
technical criteria fo the images submitted.
The "monument" concept have different meanings in different cultures, as there
are many reasons why "official recognition" status are not always present. In
my opinion, this requirement would only act as a barrier for local heritage
representation in the competition.
With best regards,
Éder Porto
De: Yaroslav Blanter <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Enviado: terça-feira, 27 de junho de 2023 13:17
Para: Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Assunto: [Wiki Loves Monuments] Re: Participating without officially
registered/published monument list?
Hi Michelle,
I am sure there were situations before when unofficial lists were used. I have
been involved in the organization of WLM in Russia for many years, there are
some official lists but there is no single complete list, so we had to compile
our own database using a lot of sources. The database is incomplete and
certainly unofficial but we still have been using it for years.
As soon as there is a list which is closed and the participation rules are
clear, I do not see any significant problems.
(Having said this, I am not on the international jury, and at the end they
decide what is accepted as international submissions. The St. Eustachius jury
can decide anything concerning the competition at the country level).
Best regards
Yaroslav
On Tue, Jun 27, 2023 at 4:15 PM Michelle van Lanschot
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Dear all,
Wikimedia Nederland is in contact with the local government of St. Eustatius
who wish to host Wiki Loves Monuments this year to promote their local
monuments and heritage.
Due to the special status the island has within the Kingdom of the Netherlands
and the lack of adequate laws for built heritage, there isn't an official
published list of monuments that participants could use. There is an unofficial
and unpublished list.
Is there a workaround for these kinds of situations?
Thank you so much for your help!
Best wishes,
Michelle van Lanschot
Projectleider
(ma, di, wo, do)
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