Of course, this IS something the whole community can and should discuss. It
is about the future of Wikimania as a volunteer-driven event.
WM-UK spending £40,000 is unfair for other future bids (did you know that
most of the chapters have less than £40,000 for the whole annual budget?)
and a terrible way of wasting money. WSC said that Hong Kong defeated
London for 2013 because they had a more "solid support by the local
Wikimedia Chapter", but Hong Kong spent 'zero'. Spending more money is
futile and, in fact, gives me the opposite idea -- that the chapter is so
uncommitted to the project that they need to hire people to do what others
do on their free time.

I hope WM-UK will reject the idea after all these opinions (and probably
also those in their internal channels)... and now I'll try to keep my nose
in my own business, I suppose.

2012/8/26 Itzik Edri <[email protected]>

> Harry,
>
> That's exactly our problem in the movement - that it seem like everyone
> can do whatever he want. But it's no.
>
> The money, even if only part of him coming from the fundraising - is
> movement money. And if Wikimedia Israel is spending money for nothing, this
> is not only my concern - but something that everyone in the movement need
> to care, if we want future for our movement.
>
> This is not the place, and this is not the right place - and I'm not
> meaning that WMUK are spending money unwittingly or not in modestly, like
> we need to do - but this is happen in the movement, but unfortunately there
> is also a trend of uncontrolled swelling budget, within the chapters, and
> also within the WMF.
>
> But this is not the issue, the issue is the future and the kind of
> Wikimania as a community project, and the balance of power between the
> third Chapter in his budget size and other volunteer groups that are
> supposed to compete in the bid. It's one thing (and ok) if the Chapter
> staff invest there time on a bid, but it's something else to spend that
> amount of resources. Even if at the end it will be half of it, or a quarter
> of it. Even five thousand pounds, this huge amount compared to what others
> have invested so far.
>
> Itzik
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 3:37 PM, HJ Mitchell <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Right, let me be quite blunt. This thread is not "undiplomatic", it's an
>> attempt to meddle in the affairs of other chapters, which do not concern
>> you. how would you have liked it if I was trashing the Haifa or DC bids
>> before they were even anything as formal as bids?
>>
>> As to "my opinion of WMUK has been tainted", let me again be very blunt.
>> You have clearly not read the documents linked, or not understood what you
>> were looking at. You are looking at suggestions. We are exploring a variety
>> of options, none of which have been discussed or approved. Now, as WSC
>> says, last year's bid failed partly because of insufficient support
>> from  the chapter, so this year, there is a *suggestion* in a *draft*
>> budget to *earmark* *up to* £40k for the bid. That doesn't mean that £40k
>> *will* be allocated, nor that, if it is allocated, the whole £40k will be
>> spent. In fact, I think it's very unlikely we will find anything to spend
>> that kind of money on in just the bidding stage, but that's why it's called
>> a *draft*. You can't criticise the chapter for offering financial support
>> when it was criticised last year for not providing financial support.
>>
>> Now kindly keep your noses out of other people's business.
>>
>> (I should probably point out that I'm not speaking on behalf of WMUK)
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Harry Mitchell
>> http://enwp.org/User:HJ
>> Phone: 024 7698 0977
>> Skype: harry_j_mitchell
>>
>>   ------------------------------
>> *From:* WereSpielChequers <[email protected]>
>> *To:* Wikimania general list (open subscription) <
>> [email protected]>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, 26 August 2012, 12:34
>> *Subject:* Re: [Wikimania-l] UK budget plan for 2014 Wikimania bid
>>
>> I agree that it would be wrong for chapter money to go into Wikimania
>> bids, especially as some bid teams have access to resources that others
>> don't. However London lost the last bid against  Hong Kong partly because
>> it was deemed not to have "solid support from the chapter". Considering how
>> much support there was from the chapter it would be difficult to see how
>> the UK chapter could give more solid support without supplying paid staff
>> time. So the logical response to the jury's decision
>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/2012-May/003491.html is
>> to budget for more solid support from the chapter.
>>
>> If the Jury had said that both bids were very good , but for 2013 it was
>> really time for another Wikimania in the Far East then we'd be in a
>> different situation.
>>
>> WSC
>>
>>
>>
>> On 25 August 2012 20:32, James Hare <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Staffing is a very good thing to spend money on—while executing the
>> conference. Spending $62,000 on staff for a bid would be worth the
>> investment if bidding for Wikimania were anything like bidding for the
>> Olympics, but it is not. The spirit of Wikimania is ultimately from its
>> volunteer leadership, and if the Wikimedia UK volunteers cannot muster that
>> spirit to run their own bid, they have no hope and no soul.
>>
>>
>> James
>>
>>
>> On Aug 25, 2012, at 3:28 PM, Itzik Edri wrote:
>>
>> Sorry, it's undiplomatic to interfere with others budget plans - but I
>> just can't ignore how the future of Wikimania will look like if others will
>> follow UK plans to invest £40,000 only for the bid process (about 62,000$).
>>
>> I wrote my last response on that few minutes ago:
>>
>> http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:2013_Activity_Plan#5.2_Wikiconference_2013
>>
>>
>> "Hire a production company for half of this cost. It's really waste of
>> donors money, for what we expect to be done by volunteers, or for a minimum
>> costs. If every one who going to bid for Wikimania will spent this amount
>> of money (and why them not? if UK can, why others not?), it's mean that for
>> 4 places every year we are "spending" more than 260,000$ only for the
>> bid!!!. --217.132.1.140 19:22, 25 August 2012 (UTC)"
>>
>> I really think the "Wikimania" groups need to speak about that. It's the
>> first time a group/chapter spending such amount of money for bid, and it's
>> open a door for next cities to do the same - with money which can uses to
>> invest in Wikimania itself.
>>
>>
>> Itzik
>>
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