On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Hersfold <hersfoldw...@gmail.com> wrote: > Sorry if I'm veering off on a tangent or repeating things here, I only just > got added to this list a short while ago but was asked to convey my concerns > here. > > While this has been discussed for some time, it seems as though the > announcement that this is getting turned on was only made just recently; the > coverage on January 16th John refers to doesn't seem to mention when this > was going to be deployed, and I don't recall any mention on-wiki of IPv6 > since then. For such a potentially major change, five day's notice is simply > not enough for the entire community to digest. As it is, I still don't see > any mention of this change on en.wiki's Technical or Miscellaneous Village > Pump, nor either Administrator's Noticeboard, the common announcement > locations for such changes. Just to be precise, a notice had actually been posted (by Jasper Deng) on the English Wikipedia's Administrator's Noticeboard way before your email (on 22:14, 1 June 2012 UTC). A different one was posted (using Global Message Delivery) to the village pumps of about 600 other Wikimedia projects. At https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IPv6_initiative/2012_IPv6_Day_announcement , Erik's above announcement has already been translated into several languages. > > My second, and more pressing concern, is how well this will work. Speaking > quite frankly, the development team has a bit of a bad habit of deploying > something on Labs or the test wiki or whatever, deciding it works, and then > deploying it straight to Wikipedia and the other public WMF sites. > Unfortunately when they do so, hell breaks loose because all sorts of > problems crop up - bugs that didn't crop up because the test wiki receives > far less traffic than Wikipedia, issues with the interface that weren't > addressed now cause problems because the users of Wikipedia don't use the > test wiki, and it takes weeks for the issues to get fixed and/or for the > community to adjust to the changes. Considering the traffic Wikipedia > receives (it's the 5th most popular website in the world, after all), it > seems remarkably inappropriate to treat it as a beta testing ground. > > I'm very concerned that this is what's going to happen with the IPv6 change > - something major is going to fail, and the wiki will become inaccessible, > or some major security feature (blocking or protection, for example) will be > rendered inoperable, leaving the wikis vulnerable to attack from all fronts. > The latter situation seems to be more likely based on past issues, and > unfortunately more problematic; once these issues get noted, it'll take only > minutes for /b/, GNAA, and a long list of other vandals to figure it out and > launch a full-scale attack that'll take weeks to clean up. > > Can we receive some sort of assurance from the development team that the > IPv6 system has been fully stress-tested, at a level comparable to what > Wikipedia and the other wikis may face, and that all extensions used by the > wikis were part of this test? If such an assurance cannot be made before > June 6th, can the deployment of this update be delayed until that testing > can be completed? For such a major website, I feel that consistent operation > is more important than adhering to the latest standards. > > ---- > User:Hersfold > hersfoldw...@gmail.com > > > > On 6/1/2012 9:17 PM, George Herbert wrote: >> >> I've been a little busy this spring, but I am interested in the IPv6 >> transition (at work, too) and missed this here as well. >> >> I don't object as Anne is here, but I'm not doing the work she's doing >> on project either. >> >> >> -george >> >> On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 5:35 PM, John<phoenixoverr...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Multiple sign posts January 17 this year. There was also a May 2011 >>> foundation announcement along with countless other notes >>> >>> On Friday, June 1, 2012, Risker wrote: >>> >>>> I've got about 18 months worth of Wikitech-L in my archives, and there >>>> are >>>> two threads that talk about IPv6; one from March, that didn't provide a >>>> lot >>>> of information, and this one. There may be others, but they're not >>>> popping >>>> up on my search. >>>> >>>> Forgive me for failing to read this week's signpost from cover to cover >>>> yet; it refers to the previous coverage from June 2011, and quotes Erik >>>> Moeller from some unknown and unspecified source. I don't know where he >>>> told "the community" that. Do you? >>>> >>>> Risker >>>> >>>> On 1 June 2012 20:10, John<phoenixoverr...@gmail.com<javascript:;>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Wow Risker, you obviously don't read any mailing lists/ blogs or sign >>>>> posts. I just did a quick search of my email records for wiki tech and >>>> >>>> ipv6 >>>>> >>>>> the first result that I see is from July 2007. Almost 5 years ago, I >>>>> also >>>>> remember a big push last year about this same time for ipv6. >>>>> >>>>> On Friday, June 1, 2012, Risker wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Indeed, a long time. Discussed on Mediawiki and bugzilla; it's not >>>>>> even >>>>>> discussed on Wikitech-L. Neither of which 99.99999% of users, >>>> >>>> including >>>>>> >>>>>> many volunteer developers, have time to follow. This is not just a >>>>>> technical change, it's a cultural one. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've long stood up for the Engineering Department when it is making >>>>> >>>>> changes >>>>>> >>>>>> that have only minor effects on the public face of the project; I know >>>>> >>>>> that >>>>>> >>>>>> sometimes users can be hyperactive about minor points. But this isn't >>>> >>>> a >>>>>> >>>>>> minor point. I'd compare it to Vector - something that there was >>>>> >>>>> longterm, >>>>>> >>>>>> active communication about throughout its development cycle, with lots >>>> >>>> of >>>>>> >>>>>> outreach to volunteer developers and to the community, and >>>> >>>> opportunities >>>>> >>>>> to >>>>>> >>>>>> test things out. >>>>>> >>>>>> I can't stand up for them this time, though. It's not even discussed >>>> >>>> well >>>>>> >>>>>> on Mediawiki, and is mostly in passing on the Roadmap.[1] And the few >>>>>> community-based questions that have come up, specifically on Erik's >>>> >>>> meta >>>>>> >>>>>> userpage, have not been given the courtesy of a reply. >>>>>> >>>>>> Risker >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> [1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Roadmap >>>>>> >>>>>> On 1 June 2012 19:35, David >>>>>> Gerard<dger...@gmail.com<javascript:;><javascript:;>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2 June 2012 00:08, >>>>>>> Risker<risker...@gmail.com<javascript:;><javascript:;>> >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Fully enabling IPv6 has been coming a *long* time - over a year, with >>>>>>> months of planning and work before even that - as Erik's first >>>> >>>> message >>>>>>> >>>>>>> in this thread notes, and it was hardly a secret. Your objections may >>>>>>> be entirely too late - it is vanishingly unlikely that two years' >>>>>>> effort will suddenly be thrown away. Were you literally unaware until >>>>>>> now that this was in the works? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - d. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list >>>>>>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org<javascript:;> <javascript:;> >>>>>>> Unsubscribe: >>>> >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list >>>>>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org<javascript:;> <javascript:;> >>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list >>>>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org<javascript:;> >>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list >>>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org<javascript:;> >>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list >>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
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