On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Hersfold <hersfoldw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry if I'm veering off on a tangent or repeating things here, I only just
> got added to this list a short while ago but was asked to convey my concerns
> here.
>
> While this has been discussed for some time, it seems as though the
> announcement that this is getting turned on was only made just recently; the
> coverage on January 16th John refers to doesn't seem to mention when this
> was going to be deployed, and I don't recall any mention on-wiki of IPv6
> since then. For such a potentially major change, five day's notice is simply
> not enough for the entire community to digest. As it is, I still don't see
> any mention of this change on en.wiki's Technical or Miscellaneous Village
> Pump, nor either Administrator's Noticeboard, the common announcement
> locations for such changes.
Just to be precise, a notice had actually been posted (by Jasper Deng)
on the English Wikipedia's Administrator's Noticeboard way before your
email (on 22:14, 1 June 2012 UTC). A different one was posted (using
Global Message Delivery) to the village pumps of about 600 other
Wikimedia projects. At
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IPv6_initiative/2012_IPv6_Day_announcement
, Erik's above announcement has already been translated into several
languages.
>
> My second, and more pressing concern, is how well this will work. Speaking
> quite frankly, the development team has a bit of a bad habit of deploying
> something on Labs or the test wiki or whatever, deciding it works, and then
> deploying it straight to Wikipedia and the other public WMF sites.
> Unfortunately when they do so, hell breaks loose because all sorts of
> problems crop up - bugs that didn't crop up because the test wiki receives
> far less traffic than Wikipedia, issues with the interface that weren't
> addressed now cause problems because the users of Wikipedia don't use the
> test wiki, and it takes weeks for the issues to get fixed and/or for the
> community to adjust to the changes. Considering the traffic Wikipedia
> receives (it's the 5th most popular website in the world, after all), it
> seems remarkably inappropriate to treat it as a beta testing ground.
>
> I'm very concerned that this is what's going to happen with the IPv6 change
> - something major is going to fail, and the wiki will become inaccessible,
> or some major security feature (blocking or protection, for example) will be
> rendered inoperable, leaving the wikis vulnerable to attack from all fronts.
> The latter situation seems to be more likely based on past issues, and
> unfortunately more problematic; once these issues get noted, it'll take only
> minutes for /b/, GNAA, and a long list of other vandals to figure it out and
> launch a full-scale attack that'll take weeks to clean up.
>
> Can we receive some sort of assurance from the development team that the
> IPv6 system has been fully stress-tested, at a level comparable to what
> Wikipedia and the other wikis may face, and that all extensions used by the
> wikis were part of this test? If such an assurance cannot be made before
> June 6th, can the deployment of this update be delayed until that testing
> can be completed? For such a major website, I feel that consistent operation
> is more important than adhering to the latest standards.
>
> ----
> User:Hersfold
> hersfoldw...@gmail.com
>
>
>
> On 6/1/2012 9:17 PM, George Herbert wrote:
>>
>> I've been a little busy this spring, but I am interested in the IPv6
>> transition (at work, too) and missed this here as well.
>>
>> I don't object as Anne is here, but I'm not doing the work she's doing
>> on project either.
>>
>>
>> -george
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 5:35 PM, John<phoenixoverr...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Multiple sign posts January 17 this year. There was also a May 2011
>>> foundation announcement along with countless other notes
>>>
>>> On Friday, June 1, 2012, Risker wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've got about 18 months worth of Wikitech-L in my archives, and there
>>>> are
>>>> two threads that talk about IPv6; one from March, that didn't provide a
>>>> lot
>>>> of information, and this one. There may be others, but they're not
>>>> popping
>>>> up on my search.
>>>>
>>>> Forgive me for failing to read this week's signpost from cover to cover
>>>> yet; it refers to the previous coverage from June 2011, and quotes Erik
>>>> Moeller from some unknown and unspecified source.  I don't know where he
>>>> told "the community" that. Do you?
>>>>
>>>> Risker
>>>>
>>>> On 1 June 2012 20:10, John<phoenixoverr...@gmail.com<javascript:;>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wow Risker, you obviously don't read any mailing lists/ blogs or sign
>>>>> posts. I just did a quick search of my email records for wiki tech and
>>>>
>>>> ipv6
>>>>>
>>>>> the first result that I see is from July 2007. Almost 5 years ago, I
>>>>> also
>>>>> remember a big push last year about this same time for ipv6.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, June 1, 2012, Risker wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed, a long time. Discussed on Mediawiki and bugzilla; it's not
>>>>>> even
>>>>>> discussed on Wikitech-L.  Neither of which 99.99999% of users,
>>>>
>>>> including
>>>>>>
>>>>>> many volunteer developers, have time to follow.  This is not just a
>>>>>> technical change, it's a cultural one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've long stood up for the Engineering Department when it is making
>>>>>
>>>>> changes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> that have only minor effects on the public face of the project; I know
>>>>>
>>>>> that
>>>>>>
>>>>>> sometimes users can be hyperactive about minor points.  But this isn't
>>>>
>>>> a
>>>>>>
>>>>>> minor point.  I'd compare it to Vector - something that there was
>>>>>
>>>>> longterm,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> active communication about throughout its development cycle, with lots
>>>>
>>>> of
>>>>>>
>>>>>> outreach to volunteer developers and to the community, and
>>>>
>>>> opportunities
>>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>> test things out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can't stand up for them this time, though. It's not even discussed
>>>>
>>>> well
>>>>>>
>>>>>> on Mediawiki, and is mostly in passing on the Roadmap.[1]  And the few
>>>>>> community-based questions that have come up, specifically on Erik's
>>>>
>>>> meta
>>>>>>
>>>>>> userpage, have not been given the courtesy of a reply.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Risker
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Roadmap
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1 June 2012 19:35, David
>>>>>> Gerard<dger...@gmail.com<javascript:;><javascript:;>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2 June 2012 00:08,
>>>>>>> Risker<risker...@gmail.com<javascript:;><javascript:;>>
>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fully enabling IPv6 has been coming a *long* time - over a year, with
>>>>>>> months of planning and work before even that - as Erik's first
>>>>
>>>> message
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> in this thread notes, and it was hardly a secret. Your objections may
>>>>>>> be entirely too late - it is vanishingly unlikely that two years'
>>>>>>> effort will suddenly be thrown away. Were you literally unaware until
>>>>>>> now that this was in the works?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - d.
>>>>>>>
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-- 
Tilman Bayer
Senior Operations Analyst (Movement Communications)
Wikimedia Foundation
IRC (Freenode): HaeB

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