I think you sent this to the wrong David... Good to hear from you, though :-)
David Richfield +27718539985 Sent from a mobile device. On 12 May 2013 16:57, "Achal Prabhala" <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi David, > > On Sunday 12 May 2013 07:33 PM, David Cuenca wrote: > >> Hi Achal, >> >> For those cases there is a Wikisource clone called Wikilivres, whose >> server >> is in Canada and it is operated by a Canadian citizen. >> http://wikilivres.ca/ >> > > Thank you - I've seen it, and think it's great. > > It is not very fast, but it serves as storage for such cases since the >> Canadian copyright law is quite permissive in that regard (50 years after >> author/translator death). >> Then you can link the works from the Wikisource author page to the work >> page in Wikilivres as some Wikisources do. >> > > So while I'm glad there's a relatively central source for such things, I > guess there'd be no problem hosting such content on Indian servers, say, > for work that's gone into the public domain on the basis of Indian > copyright law. My earlier email (and the originating question) was to how > to mesh Wikimedia Commons and Wikisource with such work - and whether we > could. Hence the interest in the law and its workarounds. > > >> If you have time, take also a look to the proposed improvements for >> Wikisource. Thanks! >> https://wikisource.org/wiki/**Wikisource_vision_development/** >> Applying_the_WS_values<https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource_vision_development/Applying_the_WS_values> >> > > This looks great, and I was wondering if the last point on the list > (working with other entities) also includes finding a way to placehold > works that have gone out of copyright in other countries, and are hosted > on, say, Wikilivres. That is, for people who consider themselves to be > working on Wikisource, and are dealing with such works, is there anything > you can offer them even if they have to host elsewhere? > > >> David ---User:Micru >> >> >> On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 5:27 AM, Achal Prabhala <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Of relevance here: http://www.publicdomainday.** >>> org/sites/www.publicdomainday.****eu/files/World_copyright-**** >>> terms.jpg<http://www.**publicdomainday.org/sites/www.** >>> publicdomainday.eu/files/**World_copyright-terms.jpg<http://www.publicdomainday.org/sites/www.publicdomainday.eu/files/World_copyright-terms.jpg> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimedia Servers and Copyright >>> Issues >>> Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 14:51:27 +0530 >>> From: Achal Prabhala <[email protected]> >>> To: Wikimedia India Community list <wikimediaindia-l@lists.** >>> wikimedia.org >>> <wikimediaindia-l@lists.**wikimedia.org<[email protected]> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Balasankar, >>> >>> The question you raise is a very important one. The solution, however, is >>> not likely to be to host content in India (I don't speak for the >>> Wikimedia >>> Foundation, but there are sound legal reasons why all Wikimedia content >>> is >>> hosted in the US; mostly liability risk and freedom of expression and >>> this >>> is unlikely to change). >>> >>> The default across Commons and Wikisource, the two projects that host the >>> bulk of public domain content (images, videos, sounds, books) in >>> Wikimedia, >>> is the US copyright term - it's the only yardstick that matters for what >>> qualifies as public domain by virtue of being out of copyright. You are >>> absolutely right, however, in that there's a big difference btw US >>> copyright terms and those of other countries, for instance: >>> >>> For photographs, while the binding limit (Berne/TRIPs) is 25 years from >>> the making of the work, India is life of photographer + 60 years after >>> death, and in the US it is life + 70. >>> >>> For literary works, the binding limit (Berne/ TRIPs) is life + 50 years, >>> whereas in India it is life + 60, whereas in the US it is life + 70 or >>> 120/95 if made on work for hire. >>> >>> (The binding limit is the WTO mandated term that country members - US and >>> India and 150 others - have to follow. As you can see, typically, most >>> countries exceed the limit for reasons of their own, which they are >>> allowed >>> to do, with the US exceeding in far greater amount than India.) >>> >>> In short, there can be a difference of between 10 and 40 years between >>> the >>> time a work goes into the public domain in a country with shorter terms >>> than the US (any number of countries in the non-Anglo-European world) and >>> the US. This seriously affects even 'Indian' works (where India is the >>> first country of publication) because of the copyright protection granted >>> to such works in the US, thus effectively placing them under copyright >>> for >>> our purposes within Wikimedia long after they've gone in to the public >>> domain in their source country. >>> >>> The case to consider here is Golan: >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/****<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**> >>> Golan_v._Holder >>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Golan_v._Holder<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_v._Holder> >>> > >>> >>> A summary of the US Supreme Court decision in this case is - US law >>> trumps >>> international agreements, so the US copyright term holds within US >>> territory, and restores copyright protection to any works that have gone >>> into the public domain by virtue of a shorter copyright term in another >>> country. Because Wikimedia servers are based in the US, Golan applies to >>> us. >>> >>> But your question is an extremely pertinent one, and if we were to find >>> unusual solutions to it, they would seem to lie in: >>> >>> 1) Whether hosting on US servers for a global audience makes any >>> difference, since we do not serve readers only bound by US law (Wikimedia >>> reader numbers bear this out, ie US readership = minority percentage of >>> whole) and whether we specifically have anything special on the basis of >>> which to mount some kind of strategic litigation on the issue of allowing >>> us to exploit the shortest possible route to public domain anywhere in >>> the >>> world for all or some of our readers. >>> >>> 2) Whether hosting on US servers but using publicly audited geolocation >>> to >>> switch off for readers from IP addresses where the material in question >>> is >>> still under copyright is a legally and operationally feasible workaround >>> (connected to whether Wikimedia Tech thinks this is both doable and worth >>> our while to do) >>> >>> 3) Whether, if all fails and there is no getting around this in any way, >>> Commons and Wikisource (if there is sufficient interest in those >>> communities) should be interested in looking at a way of allowing >>> external >>> links to chapter-managed local sites from the US-served base to see the >>> material in question; and if this is something, say, the India chapter >>> wants and is willing to do, whether this route poses any legal risks. >>> >>> In any case, I passed around your question to a few friends for comments >>> and suggestions - as well as to Geoff Brigham at the Wikimedia >>> Foundation, >>> who is not too hopeful for a solution but is very receptive to looking >>> into >>> it and getting back to us - and I'll tell you when I know something. >>> >>> Meanwhile, if you have other ways of looking into creative solutions >>> around this problem (not at all easy to crack, but the benefits are >>> significant) - or if anyone else on this list does - you should. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Achal >>> >>> >>> >>> On Friday 10 May 2013 10:20 PM, Balasankar Chelamattath wrote: >>> >>> Hi Srikanth, >>>> I didnt quite understand what you meant by example. >>>> An example for a work which is in public domain in India and not in US - >>>> Works by Changampuzha Krishnapillai ( >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/****<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**> >>>> Changampuzha_Krishna_Pillai<ht**tp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/** >>>> Changampuzha_Krishna_Pillai<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changampuzha_Krishna_Pillai> >>>> >). >>>> He passed away in 1948, and hence it is 65 years after the author's >>>> death. So the books are copyright-free in India as of now (in pubic >>>> domain). >>>> But they >>>> >>>> 1. were not published before 1923 >>>> 2. were not in the public domain in India as of 1 January 1996 ( >>>> because criteria of "60 years after author's death" not satisfied >>>> on 1996) >>>> >>>> Hence they are not in public domain according to US Laws. So we cannot >>>> store them in US servers. >>>> >>>> The main problem is India considers copyright based on date of author's >>>> death and US does it based on date of publication. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Balasankar C >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2013/5/10 Srikanth Ramakrishnan <[email protected] <mailto: >>>> [email protected]**>> >>>> >>>> Hi Balasankar, >>>> Can you point out specific instances and show when and where the >>>> book or publication was first published? If the works are still >>>> copyrighted in India, then they should be copyrighted in the US as >>>> well, generally speaking. The term India awards to creators is >>>> lesser than the one provided in the US under copyright laws. >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:31 PM, Balasankar Chelamattath >>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]****>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> As most of you know, the Indian copyright law says that a book >>>> gets relieved of copyright after 60 years from the author's >>>> death. But this is not the case with US Law. As given here >>>> >>>> <https://upload.wikimedia.org/****wikipedia/commons/9/9b/**<https://upload.wikimedia.org/**wikipedia/commons/9/9b/**> >>>> Copyrightterm.pdf<https://**upload.wikimedia.org/** >>>> wikipedia/commons/9/9b/**Copyrightterm.pdf<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/Copyrightterm.pdf> >>>> > >>>> , of all the works published outside US, only those published >>>> before 1923 are directly in the public domain. The ones >>>> published between 1923 and 1977 without compliance to the US >>>> formalities will be in the public domain only if they are in >>>> the public domain in their source country as of 1 January >>>> 1996. Almost all the other categories of published works will >>>> not be in the public domain until 95 years after publishing. >>>> >>>> This induces a confusion and when looked in a legal >>>> perspective, most of the books in Indian Wikisources, are >>>> still not in public domain and hence must be removed. This >>>> makes a huge negative impact on the hard work done by >>>> contributors. Their contributions are wasted which may cause >>>> them to stop contributing. In short, this may be a negative >>>> impact on Wikimedia's image in the society. >>>> >>>> The only solution to this problem is to *host the servers of >>>> Indian Wikimedia services in India*, so that the data we >>>> upload is stored under Indian Laws. Can Wikimedia India >>>> Chapter do anything on this? We can plan and conduct a >>>> fundraiser in India to raise money for the hosting expenses. >>>> >>>> Please consider this issue with maximum priority as it >>>> involves legal procedures and related headaches. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Balasankar C >>>> >>>> https://ml.wikisource.org/****wiki/User:Balasankarc<https://ml.wikisource.org/**wiki/User:Balasankarc> >>>> <https://**ml.wikisource.org/wiki/User:**Balasankarc<https://ml.wikisource.org/wiki/User:Balasankarc> >>>> > >>>> Regards, >>>> Balasankar C >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________****_________________ >>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.**wikim**edia.org<http://wikimedia.org> >>>> <Wikimediaindia-l@**lists.wikimedia.org<[email protected]> >>>> > >>>> >>>> <mailto:Wikimediaindia-l@**lis**ts.wikimedia.org<http://lists.wikimedia.org> >>>> <Wikimediaindi**[email protected]<[email protected]> >>>> > >>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences >>>> visit >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/****mailman/listinfo/**** >>>> wikimediaindia-l<https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/**wikimediaindia-l> >>>> <https://**lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/**listinfo/wikimediaindia-l<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l> >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- Srikanth Ramakrishnan >>>> Treasurer, >>>> Wikimedia Chapter [India] >>>> >>>> Donate to the Wikimedia India Chapter today >>>> >>>> <http://wiki.wikimedia.in/****Donations<http://wiki.wikimedia.in/**Donations> >>>> <http://wiki.**wikimedia.in/Donations<http://wiki.wikimedia.in/Donations> >>>> > >>>> ______________________________****_________________ >>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.**wikim**edia.org <http://wikimedia.org>< >>>> Wikimediaindia-l@**lists.wikimedia.org<[email protected]> >>>> > >>>> >>>> <mailto:Wikimediaindia-l@**lis**ts.wikimedia.org<http://lists.wikimedia.org> >>>> <Wikimediaindi**[email protected]<[email protected]> >>>> > >>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/****mailman/listinfo/**** >>>> wikimediaindia-l<https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/**wikimediaindia-l> >>>> <https://**lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/**listinfo/wikimediaindia-l<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l> >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________****_________________ >>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.**wikim**edia.org <http://wikimedia.org>< >>>> Wikimediaindia-l@**lists.wikimedia.org<[email protected]> >>>> > >>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visithttps:// >>>> lists.wikimedia.**org/mailman/**listinfo/**wikimediaindia-l<ht** >>>> tp://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/**wikimediaindia-l<http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l> >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________****_________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list >>> [email protected].****org >>> <[email protected].**org<[email protected]> >>> > >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/**** >>> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l<https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l> >>> <h**ttps://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l> >>> > >>> >>> >> >> > > ______________________________**_________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list > [email protected].**org <[email protected]> > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
