You see, that's the difference, when I see NuclearWarfare I think tried trusted and true; he has a long track record on Wikipedia, whatever his real name is. By the way, the actual identity of all arbitrators, oversighters, etc are verified by the Foundation.
Fred > > > The Arbitration Committe is a step in > the right direction. I was probably never informed about it because > it is only available for a small number of Wikis, and I speak about > Wikis in general (including the Swedish Wikipedia). > > The Committe is obviously alive and > kicking in the English Wikipedia. When I look at other Committes they > seem dormant or "dead". As I said earlier I don't believe > this problem is as big in the English Wikipedia as it is in some > smaller Wikis, so it is more important that the others were alive. > > There are however some principal > problems with the Arbitration Committee (and I will now use the > English one as an example). I think these problems are symptomatic > for the Wiki-org, and reflects what I meant by that the problem is > not seriously addressed. > > I don't care if there is a committe for > all Wikis or one for every Wiki, the import thing is that they work > (or for that matter what this instance is called). > > 1. The members are not independent of > the Wikis. It is obvious that they still work on the Wikipedia. That > means that they run the risk of still having loyalities to old > friends. It is like when I asked an Ombudsman why he didn't intervene > when he saw abuses, and he answered "I don't want to because > they (the abusers) are my friends". > > 2. The members have no responsibility. > First of all they are volunteers and they are anonymous. This means > that the arbitration is simply moved from a bigger to a smaller group > within the same community. > > The members have no responsibility, > i.e. they are not accountable for their decisions. How can you make > someone called "NuclearWarfare" accountable (no offense > intended, I don't know this person, it is an example.) Would you > buy a used car from someone who called himself "NuclearWarfare"? > Would you put your little daughter in care of someone who just calls > himself " NuclearWarfare"? > > If not, why would you put the question > whether your daughter has been mobbed and harassed in a Wiki in the > hands of someone who only identifies himself as "NuclearWarfare"? > > No, it needs to be professional people > (with enough knowledge about the Wikis) who is hired by the > organisation (local or global) and thereby also represents the > organisation and answers to the organisation. > > Someone pointed at Facebook and other > social medias earlier and said that the problem with mobbing is much > bigger there. It might be, but the most of these medias actually take > active part in stopping mobbing and abuses. You can contact them and > they will often respond very quickly. Some of us may think that they > are even to restrictive, but they take anyhow their responsibility. > > The Wikis on the other hand take no > responsibility, not for what is written and not for who people are > treated in the Wiki communities. > > This lack of responsibility is I think > at the heart of this question, and is the soil in which these abuses > can grow. > > 3. Since the members are not > independent they can not act on their own initiative which is > absolutely necessary. Not all users, especially children, have the > courage to speak up even if they are treated very badly. If the > members were responsible for the actions in the Wikis they must also > be able to take action when they see abuses. > > > ________________________________ > Von: Fred Bauder <[email protected]> > An: Wikimedia Mailing List <[email protected]> > Gesendet: 21:21 Donnerstag, 5.September 2013 > Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself > > > On the contrary, the Arbitration Committee has the responsibility and the > power. That they do not discharge the full remit is another matter. > People have ran for and been elected to the committee on a platform of > not discharging the responsibility it was given. > > Fred > >> No, I just responded to a problem that I recognized well. >> >> If you call him/her this or that is not important. >> >> The important thing is that the person (or group of persons) has the >> responsibility and the power to fulfil its task, i.e. to protect >> Wiki-users from abuses and mobbing. Today nobody has neither that >> responsibility nor that power. >> >> regards, >> Lars Gardenius >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> Von: Fred Bauder <[email protected]> >> An: Wikimedia Mailing List <[email protected]> >> Gesendet: 18:44 Donnerstag, 5.September 2013 >> Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from >> itself >> >> >> And your solution is an ombudsman, or what? I know there is a solution >> that you have in mind. In fact, it looks very much like a solution in >> search of a problem. Out with it! >> >> Fred >> >>> The problem is that "howls of outraged anguish" seems to come from the >>> admins not from the newbies. >>> >>> But that was not the question here. The question was that the Wikis >>> lack >>> an instance that people can turn to when they are harassed and mobbed >>> in >>> the wikis, be that newbies or admins, children or old folks, women or >>> men. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Lars Gardenius >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> Von: Fred Bauder <[email protected]> >>> An: Wikimedia Mailing List <[email protected]> >>> Gesendet: 18:03 Donnerstag, 5.September 2013 >>> Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from >>> itself >>> >>> >>> Yes, that is pretty much the situation. The howls of outraged anguish >>> from those who were not able to dictate (really bad) content or >>> practices >>> form the core of our organized opposition. That does not mean systemic >>> deficiencies don't exist; just that we must look and think in a noisy >>> environment. >>> >>> Fred >>> >>>> On 09/05/2013 04:18 AM, Lars Gardenius wrote: >>>>> That "Wikipedia:Dispute resolution" mirrors a very naive approach in >>>>> a >>>>> worldwide organization. It has never worked before and it doesn't >>>>> work >>>>> now. >>>> >>>> Where "doesn't work" is mostly defined as "didn't give the result I >>>> demanded". >>>> >>>> I've been part of that dispute resolution process for many years, and >>>> came out of it with the (admittedly cynical) lesson that the vast >>>> majority of vocal critics of it have become so as a result of >>>> "losing" >>>> to it for having been in the wrong in the first place. >>>> >>>> When someone leaves in a tiff because they have been prevented from >>>> getting their way against consensus, then the system is arguably >>>> doing >>>> exactly what it's been designed for. >>>> >>>> Of /course/ nobody ends up in a conflict on the projects without >>>> being >>>> convinced that they are in the right; and if they end up on the >>>> losing >>>> side, they will clearly feel that they were wronged. We play up the >>>> concept of discussion leading to consensus but -- let's not kid >>>> ourselves -- we are all humans and thus subject to ego, stubbornness, >>>> and personality conflicts. >>>> >>>> There *are* no vast, sweeping injustices. No system is perfect and, >>>> occasionally, errors *are* made; but the leap from "the system didn't >>>> let me get my way" to "the system is broken/dying" is all to easy to >>>> make, and is an unavoidable result of humans interacting. >>>> >>>> This certainly could be improved. More education of users upfront >>>> might >>>> prevent the confrontations in the first place; less reliance on >>>> established cliques would reduce groupthink and exaggerated >>>> conservatism. More robots and fewer humans would reduce the effects >>>> of >>>> human nature... >>>> >>>> -- Marc >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> Unsubscribe: >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list > [email protected] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
