In that case how would the Foundation tell if someone made a number of donations of under $1k that were declarable in aggregate? Hi Lisa,
I admit I am not an expert in U.S. tax law, so I could be entirely misinterpreting it. But my read of the IRS instructions are that donors who donate more than $5000 in one year must be reported, *except* that any single donation of less than $1000 may be discounted when calculating this total. This seems to be a provision to reduce compliance costs, so small donations don't have to be tracked when determining when a donor has donated more than $5000 in a year. Does that mean Wikimedia could accept donations of less than $1000 without asking for personal information? Best, Mark On 7/31/14, 12:15 AM, Lisa Gruwell wrote: > Hi Pine- > > The threshold is an aggregate limit in a calendar year. If we were to > limit the donation amount to under $5000, a person could give several > donations that totaled over $5000 in a single year (which happens) and then > we would not be compliance. Instead of trying to create a spike for every > scenario like this, we find it safest just to ask for the information. > > Best, > Lisa > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:57 PM, Pine W <[email protected]> wrote: > > Heh. If this discussion gets too technical we can move it off-list. At the >> moment if Fundraising just wants to say "we'll work on this for future >> improvenents to the Bitcoin donation system" and posting that statement in >> the blog entry and the donation screen would be ok IMO. >> >> I am rarely satisfied with "it's complicated" as an answer to anything. (: >> >> Pine >> On Jul 30, 2014 2:47 PM, "Pete Forsyth" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Sure -- I think it's a perfectly legitimate question to ask, and >>> >> reasonable >> >>> discussion to have. It just appeared to me that you were expecting a >>> detailed explanation from the chief revenue officer, which didn't seem >>> >> like >> >>> a reasonable expectation. Maybe I was wrong though. If others want to use >>> this list to debate the finer points of US tax law and effective privacy >>> practices for donations, I won't be the one standing in the way :) >>> >>> Pete >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Pine W <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> In the crowdsourced world, I like to think that we evaluate ideas and >>>> programs based on their merits rather than who makes a decision. I >>>> >>> grant >> >>> that some heirarchy is good and necessary, and in this case the >>>> >>> heirarchy >> >>> made a reasoned decision to include Bitcoin in the donation options, >>>> >>> and >> >>> did so in a way that makes a lot of sense except that one of the >>>> >>> primary >> >>> attractions of Bitcoin, privacy, seems to have not been a priority. I'm >>>> asking about how this can be addressed. It's possible that WMF can't >>>> >>> offer >>> >>>> to accept anonymous bitcoin donations at all, but as an optimist I like >>>> >>> to >>> >>>> think that it can, and my experience with other nonprofits is that >>>> anonymous donations are possible. >>>> >>>> Pine >>>> On Jul 30, 2014 2:26 PM, "Pete Forsyth" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Pine, I think Lisa already answered your question -- it's >>>>> >>>> complicated. >> >>> It's >>>> >>>>> possible (based on my limited knowledge, anyway) that what you >>>>> >>>> suggest >> >>> is >>> >>>> possible; but she never said it was impossible. She said it was the >>>>> >>>> safest >>>> >>>>> approach, given a complicated scenario. This is her professional >>>>> >>>> expertise, >>>> >>>>> so we have to assume a basic level of competence to make those >>>>> >>>> judgment >> >>> calls. >>>>> >>>>> Don't we? >>>>> Pete >>>>> [[User:Peteforsyth]] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:14 PM, Pine W <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Lisa, >>>>>> >>>>>> Hm, that is different from my understanding of the IRC. You are >>>>>> >>>>> required >>>> >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>>> offer a receipt, not to actually send one if the donor declines, >>>>>> >>>>> right? >>> >>>> Then you could have a checkbox to disable personal info and the >>>>>> >>>>> receipt. >>>> >>>>> You could also enable anonymous donations under $5000 or whatever >>>>>> >>>>> the >> >>> threshold is for reporting the donor's info to the IRS, right? >>>>>> >>>>>> Pine >>>>>> On Jul 30, 2014 2:06 PM, "Lisa Gruwell" <[email protected]> >>>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> As Andrew said, it is complicated. We decided that asking for >>>>>>> >>>>>> the >> >>> information was the safest approach and best enables to comply >>>>>>> >>>>>> with >> >>> U.S. >>>>> >>>>>> laws as well as laws in other countries. For example, we are >>>>>>> >>>>>> required >>>> >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>>> send a receipt for tax purposes to U.S. donors who give over a >>>>>>> >>>>>> certain >>>> >>>>> amount and we have already today received gifts through bitcoin >>>>>>> >>>>>> over >>> >>>> that >>>>> >>>>>> threshold. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Pine W <[email protected]> >>>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>> >>>> Nonprofits in the US are only required to report major donors >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> AFAIK. >>>> >>>>> Bitcoins aren't assets with more complicated transfer rules >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> like >> >>> real >>>>> >>>>>> estate or stock shares. Simple property donations like a can of >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> food >>>> >>>>> for >>>>>> >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> food bank don't require identification info. >>>>>>>> Pine >>>>>>>> On Jul 30, 2014 1:01 PM, "Andrew Gray" < >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> [email protected]> >>> >>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Pine, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The IRS link includes the note that: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "A payment made using virtual currency is subject to >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> information >>> >>>> reporting to the same extent as any other payment made in >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> property." >>>>> >>>>>> - no expert, but I suspect this is the explanation. Because >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the >> >>> IRS >>>> >>>>> treat bitcoin as "property" (like, eg, shares) rather than >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> currency, >>>>> >>>>>> it triggers different - and presumably more complex - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> reporting >> >>> requirements. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Andrew. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 30 July 2014 20:20, Pine W <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> There is a post on the blog saying that bitcoin is accepted >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> but >>> >>>> there >>>>>> >>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> several questions about why WMF is asking for contact info. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is >>> >>>> that >>>>> >>>>>> an >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> IRS >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> requirement? Might want to post the reason in the blog >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> entry. >> >>> AFAIK >>>>> >>>>>> with >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the nonprofits I donate to none require personal info for >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> small >>> >>>> contributions. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>> Pine >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ?subject=unsubscribe> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> - Andrew Gray >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>>>> >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ?subject=unsubscribe> >>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>>> >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ?subject=unsubscribe> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> Unsubscribe: >>>>>>> >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>> >>>>> <mailto:[email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>> ?subject=unsubscribe> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> Unsubscribe: >>>>>> >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>> >>>> <mailto:[email protected] >>>>>> >>>>> ?subject=unsubscribe> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> Unsubscribe: >>>>> >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> >>> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>> [email protected] >>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>> [email protected] >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> [email protected] >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > [email protected] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
