Gerald, are you   saying that you personally   find the effort involved in
editing wikitext or adding  media  disproportionate , or that there are
people who would like to contribute content who find it excessive, but
would find it effective with a more intuitive interface?  The first I
doubt; the second will be true of any interface.

DGG

On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Gerard Meijssen <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Hoi,
> The lack of usability that is inherent in the current tools is enough to
> drive me away from editing Wikipedia. At to this the atmosphere that is all
> too often just not interested in anything but vested interests and you have
> a cocktail that is powerful enough to have me respond to your challenge.
> Our environment is long overdue on an update and, this is really hard to
> do. I welcome the much anticipated editor and media viewer. Sure, it is not
> the finished product yet but it has way more finesse then what we had
> before.
>
> What distracts me most is the constant bickering that suggests that we are
> not moving forward or that fails to appreciate the extend that we need
> change in order to remain relevant with our content. We find that new
> editors are mainly from a mobile environment (i include tablets here) and
> they are NOT attached to the old ways some aim to have us stick to at all
> costs.
>
> We need to change and our aim should be to remain relevant for the next
> decennia.
> Thanks,
>       GerardM
>
>
> On 6 September 2014 10:54, James Salsman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Where does the idea that user interface changes to the system which
> > has already produced the most monumental reference work in the history
> > of humanity are going to help with its only actual problem, that
> > people aren't sufficiently inclined to stick around and maintain it?
> >
> > If there was any evidence that VE or Media Viewer or Flow will make
> > the projects more attractive to volunteers, I'm sure we would have
> > heard it by now. But there isn't. Nor is there any evidence that any
> > of the several Editor Engagement projects have made a dent in
> > volunteer attrition rates, despite their success in encouraging tiny
> > subsets of very new editors to contribute a few minutes more work.
> >
> > The present set of dramatic distractions from attention to the
> > vanishing volunteer corps only highlights that Foundation leadership
> > has no ability to focus on the only strategic goal they haven't
> > achieved: retaining volunteers. Because it is so much easier to
> > pretend that readers need WYSIWYG or a lightbox or can't figure out
> > how to indent replies; since readership numbers aren't an actual
> > problem (when mobile users are added to desktop pageviews) this
> > guarantees the false appearance of success in the eyes of everyone who
> > doesn't see through the transparent cop-out. Where is the evidence
> > that the status quo user interface from 2005 would not have done just
> > as well in every measurable aspect of movement success?
> >
> > Steven Walling wrote:
> > >...
> > > We practically can't and don't take on initiatives that directly
> > > try to provide more free time or money to editors....
> >
> > That is absolutely false. Individual Engagement Grants have recently
> > been proven to be substantially more cost-effective in achieving the
> > Foundation's stated goals than any other form of grant spending, on a
> > per-dollar basis. Is there any evidence that any Foundation
> > engineering effort of the past five years has done as well? I haven't
> > seen any.
> >
> > When the Foundation spends on copyright advocacy, those initiatives
> > directly try to provide more economic empowerment to the small
> > fraction of contributors who stand to benefit from whatever additional
> > government documents or panorama images they hope to free up. But
> > volunteers who want to update information on the side effects of
> > commonly prescribed drugs get nothing.
> >
> > When the Foundation spends on attempts to oppose the Trans Pacific
> > Partnership, those initiatives directly try to provide more free time
> > and money to the small subset of editors threatened by lengthening of
> > copyright terms. But editors who want to help translate introductory
> > material foundational to engineering skills literacy get nothing.
> >
> > Who at the Foundation bears the responsibility for deciding which of
> > initiatives that might benefit the real needs of vanishing volunteers
> > are funded, and why aren't they held accountable for their record
> > since 2007?
> >
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-- 
David Goodman

DGG at the enWP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DGG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG
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