On Mon, 1 Dec 2014, at 15:21, Tim Starling wrote:
> On 01/12/14 06:10, Todd Allen wrote:
> > "Second, well, of course all providers are happy to use Wikipedia (Zero) as
> > a door opener to get the customer used to different treatment of data
> > (which is a clear violation of net neutrality)."
> > 
> > Exactly this. Net neutrality means that the pipes are totally dumb, not
> > favoring -any- service over any other in any way. Not Netflix, not Youtube,
> > not Amazon, and not Wikimedia.
> > 
> > Anything that says "Data from this source will be (treated|priced)
> > differently than data from another source" is a violation of net
> > neutrality. Period. That does not mean the definition is inadequate. The
> > definition is there to ensure the pipe -stays dumb-, and that preferential
> > treatment is never accepted.
> 
> But the pipes are fundamentally not dumb -- there is a complex
> arrangement of transit prices and peering, and the companies that
> built transoceanic links want to recoup their investment. What you are
> saying is that you want the ISPs to provide the necessary
> cross-subsidies so that the pipes will appear to be dumb, to the end user.
> 
> The question for any regulated cross-subsidy should be: what is its
> social benefit? If certain telcos are allowed to choose, it will be
> cheaper to access Wikipedia than cheezburger.com. Is that appropriate?
> What social benefits will it provide if we regulate to ensure that
> they are the same price?
> 
> Vertical integration between content providers and ISPs is probably
> harmful to competition. The obvious way to deal with that is to split
> those companies. But even in a competitive marketplace, from a cost
> perspective, it totally makes sense that certain content providers
> will continue to be cheaper and/or faster, just because of geography.
> 
> Wikipedia is naturally slow and expensive for many ISPs, because we
> don't use a big CDN.

Why don't we? Is it one of the "expensive for us, cheap for users" things?

> If ISPs sold services on a cost-plus basis, you
> would expect websites delivered via CDN to be cheaper than websites
> that are located at a single site, geographically distant from their
> users.
> 
> -- Tim Starling
> 
> 
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--
svetlana

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