Hello,

I belong to the group of Josh and Ilario and others who have strong
objections against the inundation of "pseudo articles" (one
sentence-articles, bot creations based on database information etc.).

The people who justify their bot creations make two wrong assumptions:
a) about the contributors: "Later, someone will come and improve the
stubs." No, that is not true, at least not in the large majority of the
language versions, and not within the 5 or 10 years we have experience with
this phenomenon.
b) about the readers: "No article is better than none." No, bad articles
create a poor impression about a wiki. If you lure someone to your website,
because Google indicated an article about a topic, and if the article is
far from the expections, you don't give readers a reason to come back.
They'll keep preferring Wikipedia in English.

I can imagine that bot articles about your own topics can make sence: like
Frisian villages in Frisian Wikipedia (but certainly not Hungarian villages
in Basque Wikipedia). There is a realistic chance that those articles will
be expanded.

In general, if a Wikipedia language version does not have an article about
a peticular village in a far far away country, or a star in a far far
galaxy, then the reader should be sent to Wikidata or Reasonator.

A friend of mine is an expert on the Corsican language. He told me about
Corsican Wikipedia: All those mini articles on French or Italian villages,
that's nonsense. Those Wikipedians should better concentrate on
important articles such as "History of Corsica" or "Corsican
literature", they are still very poorly written. (This was in a
conversation from a few years ago, I apologize if the situation is
different now.)

Kind regards
Ziko


Am Montag, 6. Juli 2015 schrieb Asaf Bartov :

> Indeed, as Josh points out, there are also costs (even if only perceived or
> reputational costs) to populating a tiny Wikipedia with next to no active
> editors with hundreds of thousands of bot-generated stubs.  Is having stubs
> on all French communes in Cebuano better than having nothing in Cebuano?
> Probably, yes.  And by increasing pageviews (which is measurable), one
> increases the likelihood of "organic" conversion of readers into editors
> (which is *still* the most effective way to make Wikipedians, albeit not
> the easiest to directly control).
>
> But, again as Josh says, that increase in *editorship* is yet to be
> attained.  The Waray Wikipedia (btw, "Waray-Waray" is, it turns out,
> objectionable to Waray speakers, and is mildly derogatory) is still largely
> edited by *one* committed individual, User:JinJian[1], as the stats plainly
> show.  Given that the bot was run *with* JinJian's consent, there can be no
> objection to its operation.
>
> As Milos suggests, there seems to be an emotional response to those
> Wikipedias appearing in the top 10 view.  This should be divorced from
> those communities' sovereign decisions to run or not run the bot.  If the
> top 10 inclusion truly bothers people, and there's a strong consensus that
> Wikipedias largely populated by bot-generated stubs "should" not be
> included, a discussion could be had on what this view *should* mean,
> precisely, if not plainly the top 10 Wikipedias by article count.  And
> whatever refined definition is agreed upon (e.g. thresholds like a minimum
> number of active editors, or some formula involving the "article depth"
> figure, or whatever) can then be made the basis for the list, or indeed,
> for a different list, that would be more satisfying for those who are
> displeased with being "under" these Wikipedias on the list.
>
>    A.
>
> [1] http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesWikipediaWAR.htm#wikipedians
>
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:04 PM, Josh Lim <jamesjoshua...@yahoo.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> > I can probably speak for those communities.  On the whole, the logic
> > behind the Lsjbot experiment was simple: build it and they will come.
> >
> > So far though, this hasn’t happened.  We from the Tagalog Wikipedia were
> > also approached for this experiment, but we know what happens when
> > bot-generated articles are made: the community is overwhelmed.  Out of
> that
> > fear, we declined to participate.
> >
> > One of the concerns some editors in the Philippines have (and these are
> > sentiments I share) is that these two Wikipedias turn us into a
> > laughingstock, willing to increase article numbers at any cost.  At one
> > point, the Cebuano Wikipedia was described as a Wikipedia of French
> > communes, not content relevant to Cebu or Cebuanos.  I don’t think we’d
> > like that with other Wikipedias in the Philippines or elsewhere.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > > Wiadomość napisana przez WereSpielChequers <
> werespielchequ...@gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> > w dniu 6 lip 2015, o godz. 04:52:
> > >
> > > These are fascinating experiments, I hope that the Waray-waray and
> > Cebuano
> > > communities will at some point report back to the wider community as to
> > how
> > > this worked out. My fear is that too fast a growth rate could overwhelm
> > > whatever community we have in those languages leading to burn out of
> > > existing editors dealing with too many newbies at once, my suspicion is
> > > that this will vary by language depending on such variables as the
> ratio
> > of
> > > PC users to smartphone users, and the ease with which editors can
> access
> > > the necessary character sets.
> > >
> > > We have long known that bot creation of stubs that are of interest to
> > > speakers of a language is a way to recruit readers, and that some
> readers
> > > become editors. What I think we don't yet know is the maximum growth
> rate
> > > that a wiki community can cope with.
> > >
> > > There is also a sustainability angle, though hopefully we can mitigate
> > that
> > > by bot replacing of articles where the source has changed but they
> > haven't
> > > been edited on the Cebuano or Waray-waray Wikipedias. Otherwise within
> a
> > > decade we could have pedias that look very dated, for example various
> > > record holders whose articles in other languages show their records
> have
> > > been surpassed, and villages
> > >
> > > WereSpielChequers
> > > _______________________________________________
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> >
> > JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM
> > Bachelor of Arts in Political Science
> > Class of 2013, Ateneo de Manila University
> > Quezon City, Metro Manila, Philippines
> >
> > jamesjoshua...@yahoo.com <javascript:;> <mailto:jamesjoshua...@yahoo.com
> <javascript:;>> | +63 (915)
> > 321-7582
> > Facebook/Twitter: akiestar | Wikimedia: Sky Harbor
> > http://about.me/josh.lim <http://about.me/josh.lim>
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>
>
> --
>     Asaf Bartov
>     Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>
>
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