Are there any Cebuano or Waray community members on the list to offer an
opinion?
On 6 Jul 2015 23:47, "Ziko van Dijk" <zvand...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I belong to the group of Josh and Ilario and others who have strong
> objections against the inundation of "pseudo articles" (one
> sentence-articles, bot creations based on database information etc.).
>
> The people who justify their bot creations make two wrong assumptions:
> a) about the contributors: "Later, someone will come and improve the
> stubs." No, that is not true, at least not in the large majority of the
> language versions, and not within the 5 or 10 years we have experience with
> this phenomenon.
> b) about the readers: "No article is better than none." No, bad articles
> create a poor impression about a wiki. If you lure someone to your website,
> because Google indicated an article about a topic, and if the article is
> far from the expections, you don't give readers a reason to come back.
> They'll keep preferring Wikipedia in English.
>
> I can imagine that bot articles about your own topics can make sence: like
> Frisian villages in Frisian Wikipedia (but certainly not Hungarian villages
> in Basque Wikipedia). There is a realistic chance that those articles will
> be expanded.
>
> In general, if a Wikipedia language version does not have an article about
> a peticular village in a far far away country, or a star in a far far
> galaxy, then the reader should be sent to Wikidata or Reasonator.
>
> A friend of mine is an expert on the Corsican language. He told me about
> Corsican Wikipedia: All those mini articles on French or Italian villages,
> that's nonsense. Those Wikipedians should better concentrate on
> important articles such as "History of Corsica" or "Corsican
> literature", they are still very poorly written. (This was in a
> conversation from a few years ago, I apologize if the situation is
> different now.)
>
> Kind regards
> Ziko
>
>
> Am Montag, 6. Juli 2015 schrieb Asaf Bartov :
>
> > Indeed, as Josh points out, there are also costs (even if only perceived
> or
> > reputational costs) to populating a tiny Wikipedia with next to no active
> > editors with hundreds of thousands of bot-generated stubs.  Is having
> stubs
> > on all French communes in Cebuano better than having nothing in Cebuano?
> > Probably, yes.  And by increasing pageviews (which is measurable), one
> > increases the likelihood of "organic" conversion of readers into editors
> > (which is *still* the most effective way to make Wikipedians, albeit not
> > the easiest to directly control).
> >
> > But, again as Josh says, that increase in *editorship* is yet to be
> > attained.  The Waray Wikipedia (btw, "Waray-Waray" is, it turns out,
> > objectionable to Waray speakers, and is mildly derogatory) is still
> largely
> > edited by *one* committed individual, User:JinJian[1], as the stats
> plainly
> > show.  Given that the bot was run *with* JinJian's consent, there can be
> no
> > objection to its operation.
> >
> > As Milos suggests, there seems to be an emotional response to those
> > Wikipedias appearing in the top 10 view.  This should be divorced from
> > those communities' sovereign decisions to run or not run the bot.  If the
> > top 10 inclusion truly bothers people, and there's a strong consensus
> that
> > Wikipedias largely populated by bot-generated stubs "should" not be
> > included, a discussion could be had on what this view *should* mean,
> > precisely, if not plainly the top 10 Wikipedias by article count.  And
> > whatever refined definition is agreed upon (e.g. thresholds like a
> minimum
> > number of active editors, or some formula involving the "article depth"
> > figure, or whatever) can then be made the basis for the list, or indeed,
> > for a different list, that would be more satisfying for those who are
> > displeased with being "under" these Wikipedias on the list.
> >
> >    A.
> >
> > [1] http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesWikipediaWAR.htm#wikipedians
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:04 PM, Josh Lim <jamesjoshua...@yahoo.com
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > > I can probably speak for those communities.  On the whole, the logic
> > > behind the Lsjbot experiment was simple: build it and they will come.
> > >
> > > So far though, this hasn’t happened.  We from the Tagalog Wikipedia
> were
> > > also approached for this experiment, but we know what happens when
> > > bot-generated articles are made: the community is overwhelmed.  Out of
> > that
> > > fear, we declined to participate.
> > >
> > > One of the concerns some editors in the Philippines have (and these are
> > > sentiments I share) is that these two Wikipedias turn us into a
> > > laughingstock, willing to increase article numbers at any cost.  At one
> > > point, the Cebuano Wikipedia was described as a Wikipedia of French
> > > communes, not content relevant to Cebu or Cebuanos.  I don’t think we’d
> > > like that with other Wikipedias in the Philippines or elsewhere.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Josh
> > >
> > > > Wiadomość napisana przez WereSpielChequers <
> > werespielchequ...@gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> > > w dniu 6 lip 2015, o godz. 04:52:
> > > >
> > > > These are fascinating experiments, I hope that the Waray-waray and
> > > Cebuano
> > > > communities will at some point report back to the wider community as
> to
> > > how
> > > > this worked out. My fear is that too fast a growth rate could
> overwhelm
> > > > whatever community we have in those languages leading to burn out of
> > > > existing editors dealing with too many newbies at once, my suspicion
> is
> > > > that this will vary by language depending on such variables as the
> > ratio
> > > of
> > > > PC users to smartphone users, and the ease with which editors can
> > access
> > > > the necessary character sets.
> > > >
> > > > We have long known that bot creation of stubs that are of interest to
> > > > speakers of a language is a way to recruit readers, and that some
> > readers
> > > > become editors. What I think we don't yet know is the maximum growth
> > rate
> > > > that a wiki community can cope with.
> > > >
> > > > There is also a sustainability angle, though hopefully we can
> mitigate
> > > that
> > > > by bot replacing of articles where the source has changed but they
> > > haven't
> > > > been edited on the Cebuano or Waray-waray Wikipedias. Otherwise
> within
> > a
> > > > decade we could have pedias that look very dated, for example various
> > > > record holders whose articles in other languages show their records
> > have
> > > > been surpassed, and villages
> > > >
> > > > WereSpielChequers
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > > JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM
> > > Bachelor of Arts in Political Science
> > > Class of 2013, Ateneo de Manila University
> > > Quezon City, Metro Manila, Philippines
> > >
> > > jamesjoshua...@yahoo.com <javascript:;> <mailto:
> jamesjoshua...@yahoo.com
> > <javascript:;>> | +63 (915)
> > > 321-7582
> > > Facebook/Twitter: akiestar | Wikimedia: Sky Harbor
> > > http://about.me/josh.lim <http://about.me/josh.lim>
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >     Asaf Bartov
> >     Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>
> >
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