Hoi,
Have you EVER set foot in Wikidata? Because the notion that its data can be
readily understood is absurd. Reasonator can be used in stead it may even
generate text and, this works rather well for English.  It could work for
other languages. One problem with Reasonator is that for ordinary users it
is too slow. It is not cached and it is on Labs so it is not guaranteed to
be available.

Finally, Wikipedia is not what the WMF aims to do. It is sharing in the sum
of all knowledge. Wikipedia plays a large part but it is not the stated
objective in and of itself. Many Wikipedia articles and subjects are
painful to read as they do not provide easily understood information and
are often the result of painful compromises.

Random in Waray-Waray may give you information when you understand the
language. The question is, do you find alternate sources for the same
information in the Waray language?... Try random in Reasonator.. You will
find a lot of information that does not exist in English Wikipedia.

The question is; do we really care about providing information?
Thanks,
       GerardM

On 7 July 2015 at 12:21, Craig Franklin <cfrank...@halonetwork.net> wrote:

> There is already a consensus on enwiki (please, hold your rotten tomatoes)
> that projects like this which have inflated article counts due to extensive
> botting rather than through having a lively community not be included on
> the main page.  I think a lot of the comments here about a huge article
> count attracting communities to curate that content are somewhat
> disingenous, it seems that despite having lots of articles there is only
> one active user on Waray Wikipedia, who is responsible for more than 99% of
> total edits.  As Milos has alluded to, "number of articles" is a poor
> metric for understanding how useful a particular project is to speakers of
> that language.
>
> Speaking here as a speaker of a minority language myself, I understand the
> temptation of quickly creating lots of articles to have some sort of
> demonstrable impact, and I believe there is a place for some bot generation
> of articles on any project.  But after hitting "Random" a few times on
> Waray, and seeing what came back, I'm not really sure how this is a more
> useful resource for speakers of the language than just going into Wikidata
> with the interface set to Waray.  I believe the time honoured, if slower
> way of creating a Wikipedia, lovingly handcrafting it article by article,
> is far more likely to lead to a positive impact for people.
>
> Cheers,
> Craig
>
>
>
> On 7 July 2015 at 07:55, Asaf Bartov <abar...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> > Indeed, as Josh points out, there are also costs (even if only perceived
> or
> > reputational costs) to populating a tiny Wikipedia with next to no active
> > editors with hundreds of thousands of bot-generated stubs.  Is having
> stubs
> > on all French communes in Cebuano better than having nothing in Cebuano?
> > Probably, yes.  And by increasing pageviews (which is measurable), one
> > increases the likelihood of "organic" conversion of readers into editors
> > (which is *still* the most effective way to make Wikipedians, albeit not
> > the easiest to directly control).
> >
> > But, again as Josh says, that increase in *editorship* is yet to be
> > attained.  The Waray Wikipedia (btw, "Waray-Waray" is, it turns out,
> > objectionable to Waray speakers, and is mildly derogatory) is still
> largely
> > edited by *one* committed individual, User:JinJian[1], as the stats
> plainly
> > show.  Given that the bot was run *with* JinJian's consent, there can be
> no
> > objection to its operation.
> >
> > As Milos suggests, there seems to be an emotional response to those
> > Wikipedias appearing in the top 10 view.  This should be divorced from
> > those communities' sovereign decisions to run or not run the bot.  If the
> > top 10 inclusion truly bothers people, and there's a strong consensus
> that
> > Wikipedias largely populated by bot-generated stubs "should" not be
> > included, a discussion could be had on what this view *should* mean,
> > precisely, if not plainly the top 10 Wikipedias by article count.  And
> > whatever refined definition is agreed upon (e.g. thresholds like a
> minimum
> > number of active editors, or some formula involving the "article depth"
> > figure, or whatever) can then be made the basis for the list, or indeed,
> > for a different list, that would be more satisfying for those who are
> > displeased with being "under" these Wikipedias on the list.
> >
> >    A.
> >
> > [1] http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesWikipediaWAR.htm#wikipedians
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:04 PM, Josh Lim <jamesjoshua...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > I can probably speak for those communities.  On the whole, the logic
> > > behind the Lsjbot experiment was simple: build it and they will come.
> > >
> > > So far though, this hasn’t happened.  We from the Tagalog Wikipedia
> were
> > > also approached for this experiment, but we know what happens when
> > > bot-generated articles are made: the community is overwhelmed.  Out of
> > that
> > > fear, we declined to participate.
> > >
> > > One of the concerns some editors in the Philippines have (and these are
> > > sentiments I share) is that these two Wikipedias turn us into a
> > > laughingstock, willing to increase article numbers at any cost.  At one
> > > point, the Cebuano Wikipedia was described as a Wikipedia of French
> > > communes, not content relevant to Cebu or Cebuanos.  I don’t think we’d
> > > like that with other Wikipedias in the Philippines or elsewhere.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Josh
> > >
> > > > Wiadomość napisana przez WereSpielChequers <
> > werespielchequ...@gmail.com>
> > > w dniu 6 lip 2015, o godz. 04:52:
> > > >
> > > > These are fascinating experiments, I hope that the Waray-waray and
> > > Cebuano
> > > > communities will at some point report back to the wider community as
> to
> > > how
> > > > this worked out. My fear is that too fast a growth rate could
> overwhelm
> > > > whatever community we have in those languages leading to burn out of
> > > > existing editors dealing with too many newbies at once, my suspicion
> is
> > > > that this will vary by language depending on such variables as the
> > ratio
> > > of
> > > > PC users to smartphone users, and the ease with which editors can
> > access
> > > > the necessary character sets.
> > > >
> > > > We have long known that bot creation of stubs that are of interest to
> > > > speakers of a language is a way to recruit readers, and that some
> > readers
> > > > become editors. What I think we don't yet know is the maximum growth
> > rate
> > > > that a wiki community can cope with.
> > > >
> > > > There is also a sustainability angle, though hopefully we can
> mitigate
> > > that
> > > > by bot replacing of articles where the source has changed but they
> > > haven't
> > > > been edited on the Cebuano or Waray-waray Wikipedias. Otherwise
> within
> > a
> > > > decade we could have pedias that look very dated, for example various
> > > > record holders whose articles in other languages show their records
> > have
> > > > been surpassed, and villages
> > > >
> > > > WereSpielChequers
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > > JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM
> > > Bachelor of Arts in Political Science
> > > Class of 2013, Ateneo de Manila University
> > > Quezon City, Metro Manila, Philippines
> > >
> > > jamesjoshua...@yahoo.com <mailto:jamesjoshua...@yahoo.com> | +63 (915)
> > > 321-7582
> > > Facebook/Twitter: akiestar | Wikimedia: Sky Harbor
> > > http://about.me/josh.lim <http://about.me/josh.lim>
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >     Asaf Bartov
> >     Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>
> >
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> > sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
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