> Wiadomość napisana przez Anders Wennersten <m...@anderswennersten.se> w dniu 
> 7 lip 2015, o godz. 04:11:
> 
> What gives you the right to be judgemental how they act on their version? Is 
> that your idea of the movement values and vision, to talk badly of other 
> efforts?
> 
> and I know for a fact they did not to this to get into this list you are 
> upset of. It is untrue when you state "like this which have inflated article 
> counts"
> 
> And I also know as a fact they are very happy with this effort because it has 
> energized their small community. You talk of big increased I think of how 
> many communities of this size that implodes  which is a more common scenario.
> 
> As I have already stated I have no problem that you (and others) have another 
> view of the benefits of botgenrated arciels.
> 
> But please be supportive to the very small communities, who do their best to 
> survive and grow
> 
> Anders
> 
> Craig Franklin skrev den 2015-07-07 12:21:
>> There is already a consensus on enwiki (please, hold your rotten tomatoes)
>> that projects like this which have inflated article counts due to extensive
>> botting rather than through having a lively community not be included on
>> the main page.  I think a lot of the comments here about a huge article
>> count attracting communities to curate that content are somewhat
>> disingenous, it seems that despite having lots of articles there is only
>> one active user on Waray Wikipedia, who is responsible for more than 99% of
>> total edits.  As Milos has alluded to, "number of articles" is a poor
>> metric for understanding how useful a particular project is to speakers of
>> that language.
>> 
>> Speaking here as a speaker of a minority language myself, I understand the
>> temptation of quickly creating lots of articles to have some sort of
>> demonstrable impact, and I believe there is a place for some bot generation
>> of articles on any project.  But after hitting "Random" a few times on
>> Waray, and seeing what came back, I'm not really sure how this is a more
>> useful resource for speakers of the language than just going into Wikidata
>> with the interface set to Waray.  I believe the time honoured, if slower
>> way of creating a Wikipedia, lovingly handcrafting it article by article,
>> is far more likely to lead to a positive impact for people.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Craig
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 7 July 2015 at 07:55, Asaf Bartov <abar...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Indeed, as Josh points out, there are also costs (even if only perceived or
>>> reputational costs) to populating a tiny Wikipedia with next to no active
>>> editors with hundreds of thousands of bot-generated stubs.  Is having stubs
>>> on all French communes in Cebuano better than having nothing in Cebuano?
>>> Probably, yes.  And by increasing pageviews (which is measurable), one
>>> increases the likelihood of "organic" conversion of readers into editors
>>> (which is *still* the most effective way to make Wikipedians, albeit not
>>> the easiest to directly control).
>>> 
>>> But, again as Josh says, that increase in *editorship* is yet to be
>>> attained.  The Waray Wikipedia (btw, "Waray-Waray" is, it turns out,
>>> objectionable to Waray speakers, and is mildly derogatory) is still largely
>>> edited by *one* committed individual, User:JinJian[1], as the stats plainly
>>> show.  Given that the bot was run *with* JinJian's consent, there can be no
>>> objection to its operation.
>>> 
>>> As Milos suggests, there seems to be an emotional response to those
>>> Wikipedias appearing in the top 10 view.  This should be divorced from
>>> those communities' sovereign decisions to run or not run the bot.  If the
>>> top 10 inclusion truly bothers people, and there's a strong consensus that
>>> Wikipedias largely populated by bot-generated stubs "should" not be
>>> included, a discussion could be had on what this view *should* mean,
>>> precisely, if not plainly the top 10 Wikipedias by article count.  And
>>> whatever refined definition is agreed upon (e.g. thresholds like a minimum
>>> number of active editors, or some formula involving the "article depth"
>>> figure, or whatever) can then be made the basis for the list, or indeed,
>>> for a different list, that would be more satisfying for those who are
>>> displeased with being "under" these Wikipedias on the list.
>>> 
>>>    A.
>>> 
>>> [1] http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesWikipediaWAR.htm#wikipedians
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:04 PM, Josh Lim <jamesjoshua...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I can probably speak for those communities.  On the whole, the logic
>>>> behind the Lsjbot experiment was simple: build it and they will come.
>>>> 
>>>> So far though, this hasn’t happened.  We from the Tagalog Wikipedia were
>>>> also approached for this experiment, but we know what happens when
>>>> bot-generated articles are made: the community is overwhelmed.  Out of
>>> that
>>>> fear, we declined to participate.
>>>> 
>>>> One of the concerns some editors in the Philippines have (and these are
>>>> sentiments I share) is that these two Wikipedias turn us into a
>>>> laughingstock, willing to increase article numbers at any cost.  At one
>>>> point, the Cebuano Wikipedia was described as a Wikipedia of French
>>>> communes, not content relevant to Cebu or Cebuanos.  I don’t think we’d
>>>> like that with other Wikipedias in the Philippines or elsewhere.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Josh
>>>> 
>>>>> Wiadomość napisana przez WereSpielChequers <
>>> werespielchequ...@gmail.com>
>>>> w dniu 6 lip 2015, o godz. 04:52:
>>>>> These are fascinating experiments, I hope that the Waray-waray and
>>>> Cebuano
>>>>> communities will at some point report back to the wider community as to
>>>> how
>>>>> this worked out. My fear is that too fast a growth rate could overwhelm
>>>>> whatever community we have in those languages leading to burn out of
>>>>> existing editors dealing with too many newbies at once, my suspicion is
>>>>> that this will vary by language depending on such variables as the
>>> ratio
>>>> of
>>>>> PC users to smartphone users, and the ease with which editors can
>>> access
>>>>> the necessary character sets.
>>>>> 
>>>>> We have long known that bot creation of stubs that are of interest to
>>>>> speakers of a language is a way to recruit readers, and that some
>>> readers
>>>>> become editors. What I think we don't yet know is the maximum growth
>>> rate
>>>>> that a wiki community can cope with.
>>>>> 
>>>>> There is also a sustainability angle, though hopefully we can mitigate
>>>> that
>>>>> by bot replacing of articles where the source has changed but they
>>>> haven't
>>>>> been edited on the Cebuano or Waray-waray Wikipedias. Otherwise within
>>> a
>>>>> decade we could have pedias that look very dated, for example various
>>>>> record holders whose articles in other languages show their records
>>> have
>>>>> been surpassed, and villages
>>>>> 
>>>>> WereSpielChequers
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> 
>>>> JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM
>>>> Bachelor of Arts in Political Science
>>>> Class of 2013, Ateneo de Manila University
>>>> Quezon City, Metro Manila, Philippines
>>>> 
>>>> jamesjoshua...@yahoo.com <mailto:jamesjoshua...@yahoo.com> | +63 (915)
>>>> 321-7582
>>>> Facebook/Twitter: akiestar | Wikimedia: Sky Harbor
>>>> http://about.me/josh.lim <http://about.me/josh.lim>
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>>     Asaf Bartov
>>>     Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>
>>> 
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JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM
Bachelor of Arts in Political Science
Class of 2013, Ateneo de Manila University
Quezon City, Metro Manila, Philippines

jamesjoshua...@yahoo.com <mailto:jamesjoshua...@yahoo.com> | +63 (915) 321-7582
Facebook/Twitter: akiestar | Wikimedia: Sky Harbor
http://about.me/josh.lim <http://about.me/josh.lim>
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